Drive shaft for 5 speeds

[conkitchen]

What say you? 

 

SO the OEM stock D-shaft from an 02 is shortened and/or an e21 3-bolt flange is added.  Outside of other services like balancing and new U-joints etc... It's a straight forward measure and cut scenario that should be performed by a professional driveline service.   

 

That being said:

 

I have done this conversion using a two piece-slip spline unit from another BMW. I believe it was from a 318i but can not confirm. However once it was shorted, it fit great.  The tubes were larger in diameter, but the ends worked just fine.  The two nice things about this shaft was 1) it was a slip spline so exact measurements was moot as long as the total length was in the ball park.  2) was the U-joints were replaced with new serviceable one's.  

 

 

So the question really is, can anyone else see why using a later model slip spline unit (from a 318i) as problem? How about using a shorted e21 shaft, anyone do that? 

 

The one thing I noticed when I did it was that the IE stainless exhaust center muffler (not being round but oval and wider) did interfere with the center bearing.  Nothing the ole hammer could not solve.  

 

but what do I know. 

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by conkitchen

[bergie33]

I know the reason for not using an E21 shortened driveshaft is due to the center support bearing. You would have to make several more cuts and welds to relocated the E21 shaft so that the center bearing is in the stock location on the car (or move the CSB mounts).  I thought I saw a post or two where someone used a slip spline shaft as you are suggesting.

[tech71]

17 minutes ago, conkitchen said:

So the question really is, can anyone else see why using a later model slip spline unit (from a 318i) asa problem?

If you are talking about using with a Getrag 240..I certainly dont.

 The 240 is like, maybe an inch longer than a 4 speed and the driveshaft I used from an  E30 fit pretty good. Had to extend it maybe 1/2 in to fit. No shortening required.

The 245 is a lot longer will probably need to be shortened.

14 minutes ago, bergie33 said:

You would have to make several more cuts and welds to relocated the E21 shaft so that the center bearing is in the stock location on the car (or move the CSB mounts). 

For a 240 install using an E30 driveshaft its not difficult to fab an adapter bracket that required only drilling two holes in your car. The same should work on a 245 install.

Have to clean up leaves now, will post pertinent pics later. I hate trees.

[conkitchen]

1 hour ago, tech71 said:

If you are talking about using with a Getrag 240..I certainly dont.

 The 240 is like, maybe an inch longer than a 4 speed and the driveshaft I used from an  E30 fit pretty good. Had to extend it maybe 1/2 in to fit. No shortening required.

The 245 is a lot longer will probably need to be shortened.

For a 240 install using an E30 driveshaft its not difficult to fab an adapter bracket that required only drilling two holes in your car. The same should work on a 245 install.

Have to clean up leaves now, will post pertinent pics later. I hate trees.

Suppose clarification is in order. doing the typical 3 piece trans (245) conversion.  

Edited November 22, 2022 by conkitchen

[chargin]

2 hours ago, conkitchen said:

can anyone else see why using a later model slip spline unit (from a 318i) as problem?

 

I'm using the e30 driveshaft, this photo illustrates how much further back the later Center Support Bearing is located 

My front section is about 1.5" shorter but the rest of the shaft is OEM 

 

[conkitchen]

11 minutes ago, chargin said:

 

I'm using the e30 driveshaft, this photo illustrates how much further back the later Center Support Bearing is located 

My front section is about 1.5" shorter but the rest of the shaft is OEM 

 

 

Well it also looks like you are not running a 245 in there. I guess my line of question is mostly specific to stock M10 and your typical 5 speed conversion.  

 

but what do I know. 

[chargin]

1 minute ago, conkitchen said:

I guess my line of question is mostly specific to stock M10 and your typical 5 speed conversion.  

 

but what do I know. 

 

True but the CSB will be in this location if you use a e30 DS with a 245, if you shorten a 2002 driveshaft you will not need to move the CSB

[conkitchen]

20 minutes ago, chargin said:

 

True but the CSB will be in this location if you use a e30 DS 

I hear ya! just to clearify, the e30 DS you are using is not from a 84-85 318i, yes? Likely an M20 motor and trans? 

[Shagnasty P. Snaggletooth]

I don't know why people make this so difficult. Use a E3 or E9 rear shaft as is. If you're using a three bolt flange on your trans, use a cut off matching driveshaft flange from an e21 and the front shaft from the same E3/E9. The CSB stays in the same place. Measure from the rear of the flex disc to the center of the CSB bolt slots. Give the whole shaft, the front 3 bolt flange cut from the e21 shaft, and the measurement to the drive shaft shop. The whole moving the CSB thing is so unnecessary. I use this setup in the race car, and I have a front section for both a 235/245, and a big six 265, and I never have to remove the rear half of the shaft, just swap fronts when swapping trannies.

[danco_]

2 hours ago, Furry Camel said:

I don't know why people make this so difficult. Use a E3 or E9 rear shaft as is. If you're using a three bolt flange on your trans, use a cut off matching driveshaft flange from an e21 and the front shaft from the same E3/E9. The CSB stays in the same place. Measure from the rear of the flex disc to the center of the CSB bolt slots. Give the whole shaft, the front 3 bolt flange cut from the e21 shaft, and the measurement to the drive shaft shop. The whole moving the CSB thing is so unnecessary. I use this setup in the race car, and I have a front section for both a 235/245, and a big six 265, and I never have to remove the rear half of the shaft, just swap fronts when swapping trannies.

Your way is easy, like you said.  I'm guessing most guys don't have the hard measurements or know the e3/e9 trick.

 

I've gotten to the point that I call a local driveshaft company about 15 minutes from me and I tell him what driveshaft I need replicated and what total length and what front flange and he has a brand new driveshaft ready for me for $500-550. All new parts, all serviceable, fresh CSB. I wonder if we use the same guy. 

[tech71]

3 hours ago, Furry Camel said:

I don't know why people make this so difficult. Use a E3 or E9 rear shaft as is.

I think it’s more about using what’s available/ in hand.
I doubt there are E3/E9 driveshafts laying about waiting to be scooped up on CL every day.. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by tech71

[conkitchen]

18 minutes ago, tech71 said:

I think it’s more about using what’s available/ in hand.
I doubt there are E3/E9 driveshafts laying about waiting to be scooped up on CL every day.. 

was kinda thinking that very same thing. Way more 318 shafts about-if they are a nice "cheap" alternative to running a stock unit which has no serviceable U-joints or slip spline.  Most of the stock shafts out there that have not been modified with new yokes for better U-joints are likely gonna be stiff and notchy after 50 years.  

 

This was more of an exercise in "plug N play" options for the uninitiated and poor youths just gettin into this madness.  I'm getting out someday soon, but I have been saying that for years! 

 

Oh the humanity. 

[TobyB]

Yeah, it's the CSB.

 

If there was another LATER, MORE COMMON production BMW that 

had the same flange- to- CSB dimension that the 2002 does,

and used the same diff flange, we'd be all over it.  But I have a small stack

of E36, E46, E39 and some other random crap driveshafts (front of a Ferd 4x4, e.g.)

in the barn, and NONE of them come close to being the right length.

 

At that point, you're kind of like, well, may as well just use the 2002 part.

 

I've tried lots of things...

 

t

 

[chargin]

12 hours ago, conkitchen said:

ay more 318 shafts about-if they are a nice "cheap" alternative to running a stock unit which has no serviceable U-joints or slip spline.

 

2 years ago there were many e30 DS available locally $80-$100 today not so much in SoCal area where I've been quoted at $250 core price

[conkitchen]

Just now, chargin said:

 

2 years ago there were many e30 DS available locally $80-$100 today not so much in SoCal area where I've been quoted at $250 core price

Yeap gone are the days. That's why my 5 speed and diff ( for sale here if you are paying attention) cost as much as whole cars used to.  You just cant go and easily find good stuff cheap after 40 years.  

 

15-ish years ago I was buying clapped out 320i's some "S" models for less than $1000.  

 

But I guess I'm old now and have nothing to offer today's know it all internet warriors.