Timing, TDC, and other newbie questions

[Solarphil]

2 hours ago, RainMoore said:

 

 

Ok, so I would set everything at TDC (basically manual specs), then adjust it to 25 degrees by turning the distributor, or would I adjust something on the light itself? I'm ordering a timing light now, so I don't have any experience with them yet.

I thought the three notches on the flywheel represented TDC and some degrees of advance. Why wouldn't I set the advance there?

 

Also, you're saying that its easier to remove the valve cover than to turn to TDC with the bolt on the front? If I removed the cover would I need to replace the gasket? Again, this would be a first for me.

 

Thanks!

IIRC there’s two parts to the process - static timing (engine not running) first.  Find TDC per Mark92131’s instructions, where you can see the TDC line at the port at the flywheel, the pointer at the pulley, the mark at the camshaft, and most importantly cylinder one lobes are sticking straight out.

 

You don’t need to be afraid of pulling the valve cover, it’s kinda cool and fun inside. Welcome to the inner sanctum of your engine. Your valve cover might need to be changed due to age if it’s cracked or leaking, but popping the top off shouldn’t hurt it. 
 

Once the engine is running, you rotate the distributor to see the ball at the target RPM.  it’s visible by using the timing light strobe which is triggered by the pulse in cylinder #1 spark plug lead.  The ball on all M10 motors are at the exact same location, but the factory gives different target rpms based on the given distributor/year of car.  Good timing lights like the one Tom mentioned give you an rpm readout (plus a lot more).  It’s also good to know that target was based on 1960s fuel, on a new engine, and to meet required emissions. You’ll want to tune further by additional advance (rotation) to find max power and feel, then dial it back just a touch to avoid detonation.  

 

Give me a shout if you need help, at my username at gmail.  Have timing light can travel ?

[RainMoore]

19 minutes ago, TobyB said:

Several additional suggestions-

 

pull a plug, ground it, and then watch while cranking.  Just to make sure there's spark there.

It's quite possible to get spark at the coil, but not out of the distributor.

(I've found that I've forgotten the rotor more than once, that way)

 

As to timing, set the engine to TDC #1, then BACK IT UP halfway to the ball bearing

(or first mark on the front pulley).  Then, with the plug out and grounded,

rotate the dizzy the opposite direction (against the arrow) until you get a spark.

Do it several times, and then try your darndest to set it where the spark happens.

If you're a little before the spark (timed later) that's better than early, from a starting perspective.

 

Then yes to a small squirt of fuel down the carb.  It doesn't mind.  If it catches then dies, you have

a fuel delivery problem- the idle- up screw can be your friend, as it won't idle well at all until you

get the timing dialled in.

 

You're close.

 

t

 

 

This sounds like it could be a good way to do this, but I'm a little confused. So I would rotate the dizzy counter clockwise until I see spark, but someone would need to be cranking the engine to make that happen, no? So would I then reset the crankcase at the first notch (which I'm assume is an advance position) each time I try? Or is there a way to get static spark?

 

Also, one thing I haven't had answered yet, how do I even get to the nut? Would I need to remove the radiator and fan?

 

Thanks!

['76mintgrün'02]

6 minutes ago, Solarphil said:

Give me a shout if you need help, at my username at gmail.  Have timing light can travel ?

 

This is the second time I've seen this offer... don't miss this opportunity!

 

Having met Phil, I guarantee you will have fun and learn a ton.

 

Tom

['76mintgrün'02]

3 minutes ago, RainMoore said:

So I would rotate the dizzy counter clockwise until I see spark, but someone would need to be cranking the engine to make that happen, no?

 

No need to crank the engine.  The spark happens each time the points open.  The points are attached to the points plate/body of the distributor, so rotating the body will pass the points' rubbing block over the stationary center post inside the distributor.  That will open the points and a spark will happen at the plug, if it is grounded.  To ground the plug, you can just press the sparky end against the valve cover, or any other bare body metal.  

[RainMoore]

Man, once again thanks to all of you for being so awesome. Great advice and patience with this bumbling novice.

 

I'll give an update once I've tried some of these new ideas.

...And I'm sure I'll have more questions hah

[Hans]

6 hours ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

 

No need to crank the engine.  The spark happens each time the points open.  The points are attached to the points plate/body of the distributor, so rotating the body will pass the points' rubbing block over the stationary center post inside the distributor.  That will open the points and a spark will happen at the plug, if it is grounded.  To ground the plug, you can just press the sparky end against the valve cover, or any other bare body metal.  

With the ignition turned on.

If you get your timing light, I'd be inclined to do it in two steps.

You can turn the engine over by putting car in fourth gear and pushing. For little turns, use the fan with your other hand pushing down on the belt. The socket on the crank nut works but easier from below.

Don't be holding the plug while testing. 

The engine turns clockwise when viewed from the front. To keep it simple, don't turn engine backward.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Hans
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[Hans]

7 hours ago, TobyB said:

As to timing, set the engine to TDC #1, then BACK IT UP halfway to the ball bearing

(or first mark on the front pulley).  Then, with the plug out and grounded,

rotate the dizzy the opposite direction (against the arrow) until you get a spark.

Do it several times, and then try your darndest to set it where the spark happens.

If you're a little before the spark (timed later) that's better than early, from a starting perspective

Havent you then set static timing at 12 deg? I havent had my coffee yet.

[Buckeye]

Your distributor is not in-sink with engine firing order. Did you remove spark plug wires from dizzy cap? Here is pictures of dizzy cap and plug wires should be attached to it.

 

 

Link below should help to set TDC. 

 

[Mike Self]

Since it's an automatic, there's a neutral safety switch to insure the car isn't in gear when you activate the starter.  The wiring to the starter and the coil passes through this switch.  It's just possible that the switch is malfunctioning, allowing the starter to operate while blocking current to the coil.  If you're getting +12v at the coil's low tension terminal, then the neutral switch is OK.

 

mike

[RainMoore]

Just got it going this afternoon! Timing light is on the way so this is just by turning the dizzy to where it sounds best.

 

Thanks again for all the advice y’all!

[Solarphil]

Sweet!  Congrats, what was it that made the difference?

[RainMoore]

Had someone crank while I turned the dizzy slowly. Suddenly it awoke! A little more dialing in, and tweaking the carb and it’s cruising along. Sounds pretty happy when revved up!

 

Got the Rolls Royce timing light y’all recommended coming in the mail, so hopefully this weekend I can get it more finely tuned!

 

So great after so much tinkering,  replacing this and that, and stumbling through unknown waters to hear it humming along!

Thanks again!

 

An actual photo of today events: