Explanation for a mystery on early 1600s?

[tjones02]

My 1560847 has the cutouts.

 

”The BMW 1600 US VIN 1560847 was manufactured on October 9th, 1967 and delivered on October 17th, 1967 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original color was Manila, paint code 004.”

I do not recall if I have seen an early 2002 with open triangles. But, I agree that all open triangle cars that I’ve seen had a piece of door vapor barrier glued over the holes from the interior, or seat, side. All four of my 1600-2s ranging from 1508028, 1528923, 1530962 and 1560847 all have open triangles and had vapor barrier covering them.

[Conserv]

7 minutes ago, tjones02 said:

My 1560847 has the cutouts.

 

”The BMW 1600 US VIN 1560847 was manufactured on October 9th, 1967 and delivered on October 17th, 1967 to the BMW importer Hoffman Motors Corp. in New York City. The original color was Manila, paint code 004.”

I do not recall if I have seen an early 2002 with open triangles. But, I agree that all open triangle cars that I’ve seen had a piece of door vapor barrier glued over the holes from the interior, or seat, side. All four of my 1600-2s ranging from 1508028, 1528923, 1530962 and 1560847 all have open triangles and had vapor barrier covering them.

Thank you, Tom,

 

That’s very helpful!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[02Anders]

Likewise, for what it’s worth, I too have never seen a 2002 with the open triangles In the rear bulkhead.  

[BritshIron]

Here's a little more information that could speak to the rear bulkhead design and cutout history of 1960's BMW sedans.

 

Apparently, all of the Neue Klasse cars--1500, 1600, and 1800--through 1964, had rear bulkheads with die cut cutouts on each side, and a structurally more open design that involved less solid metal than the 1600-2. I've included some pictures from the web, and a nifty YouTube video link with a clear shot of the rear bulkhead of a car on the assembly line, about 1 minute into the video. Also, Carl Nelson has three of these NK cars, one 1963 and two 1964, and they all have the cutouts in the rear bulkheads. According to Carl, from 1965 to end of production, the NK cars had solid rear bulkheads.

 

It seems, in the early years of production of each of these new sedan models (including the 02 1600-2), there was a pattern of die cutting some of the metal out of the rear bulkhead. With the Neue Klasse cars, weight reduction would seem the most logical reason, especially when you consider the design of the rest of the bulkhead. The reasoning for cutting out the two triangles of metal from the early 1600-2 cars remains a mystery--but there's definitely a pattern of taking metal out of the rear bulkhead when you look at the early relatives of the 1600-2.

 

I also wrote Andreas Harz of the BMW Group archives, and asked him specifically about the 1600-2 cutouts. He wrote back and said "I don't think there is a deeper meaning behind these cutouts, but I have to admit I don't know. I will ask my colleagues in the spare parts department if they know anything and contact you again." Then he wrote "I don't have an answer yet and to be honest I don't think there will be one. This is probably one of the things that are lost in time, but if I find something I will tell you."

 

Hope you enjoy the brief Neue Klasse video and the photos. The green car is a 1963 1500, and I'm not too sure the year or model of the red car in the video. Thoughts? Aloha, Robert

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6r65Y3N4uw

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6r65Y3N4uw

 

 

[Conserv]

9 hours ago, BritshIron said:

Here's a little more information that could speak to the rear bulkhead design and cutout history of 1960's BMW sedans.

 

Apparently, all of the Neue Klasse cars--1500, 1600, and 1800--through 1964, had rear bulkheads with die cut cutouts on each side, and a structurally more open design that involved less solid metal than the 1600-2. I've included some pictures from the web, and a nifty YouTube video link with a clear shot of the rear bulkhead of a car on the assembly line, about 1 minute into the video. Also, Carl Nelson has three of these NK cars, one 1963 and two 1964, and they all have the cutouts in the rear bulkheads. According to Carl, from 1965 to end of production, the NK cars had solid rear bulkheads.

 

It seems, in the early years of production of each of these new sedan models (including the 02 1600-2), there was a pattern of die cutting some of the metal out of the rear bulkhead. With the Neue Klasse cars, weight reduction would seem the most logical reason, especially when you consider the design of the rest of the bulkhead. The reasoning for cutting out the two triangles of metal from the early 1600-2 cars remains a mystery--but there's definitely a pattern of taking metal out of the rear bulkhead when you look at the early relatives of the 1600-2.

 

I also wrote Andreas Harz of the BMW Group archives, and asked him specifically about the 1600-2 cutouts. He wrote back and said "I don't think there is a deeper meaning behind these cutouts, but I have to admit I don't know. I will ask my colleagues in the spare parts department if they know anything and contact you again." Then he wrote "I don't have an answer yet and to be honest I don't think there will be one. This is probably one of the things that are lost in time, but if I find something I will tell you."

 

Hope you enjoy the brief Neue Klasse video and the photos. The green car is a 1963 1500, and I'm not too sure the year or model of the red car in the video. Thoughts? Aloha, Robert

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6r65Y3N4uw

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6r65Y3N4uw

 

 

Thank you, Robert!

 

This piece of history was certainly outside my range. The cut-outs on the early 1600-2’s, we must note, are inconsequentially small when compared to the early NK cut-outs. And they apparently appear after the NK cut-outs had been discontinued. Significance? I haven’t a clue! ?

 

Regardless, I have resolved that I will lose no more sleep over this issue! The most we can probably know is that the practice probably stopped some time after October 9, 1967 — thank you, Tom!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Conserv

[02Anders]

7 minutes ago, Conserv said:

Thank you, Robert!

 

I have decided that I will lose no more sleep over this issue!

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Which is of course all very well and fine for you Steve.
But I might still remain sleepless night after night as I toss and turn contemplating this mystery...  ?

[Conserv]

4 minutes ago, 02Anders said:

... But I might still remain sleepless night after night as I toss and turn contemplating this mystery...  ?

And maybe this will inspire you, Anders, to find The Answer!
 

It seems to me, however, with your particularly broad taste in rare and exotic cars — no doubt filled with mysterious puzzles and an utter dearth of spare parts — that you’ve got to move this issue a few notches down on your list of priorities... ?
 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[02Anders]

11 minutes ago, Conserv said:

And maybe this will inspire you, Anders, to find The Answer!
 

It seems to me, however, with your particularly broad taste in rare and exotic cars — no doubt filled with mysterious puzzles and an utter dearth of spare parts — that you’ve got to move this issue a few notches down on your list of priorities... ?
 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Sound advice Steve - I genuinely thank you.
But the question remains, will I be capable of notching it down??  It's going to be a tough one to crack...  

[BritshIron]

I've had lots of contact with many of you regarding this cutout mystery. Mike Self and I had "Covid Cutout Conference Calls!"

 

Here's what I believe, subject to change with next best idea that comes down the thread. The cutouts in the Neue Klasse four door cars, and the early 1600-2, are related in one sense. They both greatly helped distribute paint to the far corners of the cars trunk interior and elsewhere, especially the areas around the wheel houses and other interstitial spaces (nooks and crannies), during the factory paint vat dipping process.

 

The two, vertical ovals stamped on either side of the early Neue Klasse rear bulkheads may have had a primary purpose to give the flat metal strength and rigidity in an important structural part of the car. But they also provided great access for paint during the dipping process. I'm guessing BMW learned something from these holes in the Neue Klasse bulkheads, and used the same technique for the early 1600-2 cars. 

 

Please see part of a brochure (thank you, Delia!) from back in the day, when BMW was touting their electro-phoretic immersion bath process for the 1600-2. Note the photo chosen, and the words "All the inaccessible corners and edges of the body, outside reach for normal painting...." The triangular cutouts, I believe, were simply logical places in the pressed flat metal where holes could be created without loosing too much strength and rigidity gained from the flat metal pressing process. Note the strengthening pressed edges of the cutouts are still preserved.

 

Finally, while there could have been some production tool access advantages vis-a-vis bulkhead holes in all models, I do not think any of these bulkhead holes were meant for any type of "after purchase" purpose. I thought the roll bar idea was pretty good, but modern roll bars (The Aley Bar) were not developed until roll bar units produced by John Aley in 1964--and that was a Mom and Pop endeavor for years until Aley sold out to Safety Devices.

 

And, one more thing regarding the 1600-2 triangular cutouts. I can't imagine the factory covering these holes with acella cloth during final fit and finish, and then expecting the downstream owners to remove the covering for another purpose. Note the Neue Klasse holes and openings were covered with a nifty, finished trim board from the cabin side of the bulkhead. BMW surely did not mean for these trim boards to be removed either.

 

Take a look at the image below, and please post your thoughts. Aloha, Robert  

 

PS. The current thread regarding the rare 2002 engine 1660001 includes information on 1967 1600-2 VIN 1525747, and made May 17, 1967. Attached is an interesting picture of that car's rear bulkhead, from the cabin side. Thank you, Kevin! RPS

[02Anders]

@BritshIron, we will probably never know without a shadow of a doubt, but the above seems the most sound theory of all those presented to us thus far...

[Conserv]

Nice work, Robert (and Mike)! This seems like a reasonable explanation given the facts at hand. Guess those CCCC’s paid off! ?

 

Thanks and best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 2, 2020 by Conserv

[NickVyse]

Just to throw a spanner in the works on that theory.. from '64 the NK got a solid rear bulkhead similar to the later 02, with no cut outs. I suspect they added this rear bulkhead for strength and safety.

 

[BritshIron]

1 hour ago, NickVyse said:

Just to throw a spanner in the works on that theory.. from '64 the NK got a solid rear bulkhead similar to the later 02, with no cut outs. I suspect they added this rear bulkhead for strength and safety.

 

 

Yes, Nick, I actually ran across the solid bulkhead change in the newer Neue Klasse cars at the beginning of testing the theory. Carl Nelson at La Jolla Independent BMW has two 1964 1800 Neue Klasse cars, and they both have the "holy bulkheads" with the open center and the cutouts ("punch-outs"- I think the Neue Klasse ovals over the wheel house were punched with the press, as opposed to being die cut "cutouts"). Anyway, after Carl told me about his cars, I was happy about the paint dispersal theory until I began to see 1964 1800 Neue Klasse cars on the web with solid bulkheads like yours.

 

I believe, when Max Hoffman began importing the Neue Klasse 1800 in 1964--all those Hoffman Motors Corp. cars had solid rear bulkheads. That did not keep BMW from paint dipping cars in the vat, but arguably dipping process was a little less efficient without holes and the punch-outs in the Neue Klasse rear bulkheads.  The attached YouTube shows the production process for the Neue Klasse 1800, and I believe the car that you can see vat dipped using the electro-phorectic immersion bath has a solid bulkhead. Similarly, BMW kept on using the electro-phorectic immersion bath with the 02 cars after November 1967, when the cutouts in the 1600-2 and TI cars were gone, and no 2002 car ever had the rear bulkhead cutouts.

 

As sort of an aside to your observation, I was trying to find out why the Hoffman cars in 1964 were imported to the US with a solid bulkhead, and all Neue Klasse cars, whether US imported or European, had solid rear bulkheads beginning in 1965. Albrecht Walloth of WallothNesch wrote me to say "The reason for closing the holes is very simple, it is just to prevent petrol from splashing into the passenger cell under a crash on the back bursting the fuel tank. ( you can read this in the ECE34 legislation papers (reducing and preventing fire damages from liquid fuels).

 

I did look up the EU legislation ECE 34, and found it traces back to a very early United Nations advisory going back to 1958. Why the Germans would have chosen to implement fuel-in-the-cabin mitigation measures in 1964, as evidenced by the solid rear bulkhead in the Neue Klasse 1800--well, I don't know for sure. But I'll bet it had something to do with Max Hoffman importing these cars into the US (see Hoffman ad below). As you know, the Federal Motor Safety Vehicle Safety Standards Act did not mandate our own US fuel safety requirements until January 1, 1968, and that's when our "Federalized" BMW's began having the Marinox air injection system for improving emissions, and the solid rear bulkheads in all 02 cars.

 

Anyway, I digress. The main answer to your observation is I believe the strengthening "punch-outs" on each side of the rear bulkhead of the early Neue Klasse cars (as well as the large openings in the center of the bulkhead) helped with paint dispersion as perhaps a secondary reason for this bulkhead design. When safety laws or policies mandated a solid bulkhead, I think BMW kept right on with the electro-phorectic immersion bath, holes or no holes. One would then have to rationalize that the Germans liked the holes enough to bring them back in the early 1600 cars in Europe, only to stop die cutting the rear bulkhead triangles to meet the FMSSA requirements for 1968. Your point is very well taken. It may be a spanner in the theory. I'm hoping someone comes up with something more conclusive! I now think I've got one of these holes in my head! Aloha, Robert

 

PS. The YouTube video below on the production of the Neue Klasse 1800 is 29 minutes long, but the vat dip part with the solid bulkhead car is about 5 minutes into the video. Also, Mike pointed out there are some two door cars mixed into this video as well! RPS