NOT-rebodied 74 tii on BAT

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, Simeon said:

 

...Does a ‘74 have those ‘fillets’ in the corners of the tank opening?

 

 

Yes, Simeon, it’s a U.S. square taillight thing. Here’s my ‘76.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited July 2, 2019 by Conserv

[Inka’d02]

I hope this ends this and we can move on. I am now going to have repaint this area but here it is.

[JohnS]

That's a pretty clear picture.  + 2780517 + Respect! ?

Edited July 3, 2019 by JohnS

[Conserv]

11 hours ago, Inka’d02 said:

I hope this ends this and we can move on. I am now going to have repaint this area but here it is.

 

Nicely done. Even shows the Taiga metallic, paint code 072!

 

GLWS,

 

Steve

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Conserv

[Inka’d02]

One of the best things about BAT is the comments and interactivity. Along with legitimate experts watching most sales and offering their opinions, it adds a level of open vetting, and feedback most auctions don't have. 

 

In this case we were given no opportunity to respond the first 6 days of the auction. The original poster stated "if they are on this forum and doing research then I advise answers to detailed questions." but no action was taken to actually show it to me. After countless nights and weekends spent on this car the last 8 months, someone decided to start a thread here, titled "rebodied 74 tii I believe on BAT" no less; and step by step pointing out reasons this car was not potentially what we said it was. With hours to go we could not understand what was happening with the bidding, and then, in short order we received half a dozen messages stating a concern with the VIN, and the theory that this was a re-body. Finally someone sent us a link to this thread, and we clearly understood at least in part, what was happening. 

 

I understand the concerns, at least on the surface, but what I don't understand is that not a single member here attempted to reach out to me via BAT before the last 4 hours of the sale. We absolutely knew the car was not a rebody, and could absolutely prove it.  We could have addressed each issue point by point if given the opportunity. 

 

This car is going to go back for sale, on this forum, and since it is now memorialized online as a "potential re-body" I would like to address each point, one by one, so that unequivocally, anyone interested will know it is not. 

 

The car is a driver, meant to be enjoyed and will be priced accordingly. The paint in general is 7/10, and not the original color. We did significant metal work to the underside of the car, despite doing it exactly as it should be, that will always turn some off. The car runs a little rough on startup, which at this point is a bit overstated; as demonstrated in my video. It has 2 holes in the bumpers from the silly fog lamps someone installed.  It is an absolute blast to drive, and I stand behind every aspect of it. 

 

Point by point: (I know some of these have been "debunked" but for the prospect of a potential buyer I am going to itemize them) 

 

1. VIN Plate welded in - Please see Photos it is clearly original. 

2. Not A Taiga Car - Please see photos, and email directly from BMW.- 072.- 

3. Hole in the steering column clamshell - When we got the car it had a ridiculous fog lamp setup, and there was a toggle run here. 

4. Accumulator - When we started plumbing this car back up and turned on the pump, gas started leaking from the unit. We removed the unit. Please see photo attached of original bracket. 

5. Sits too low - No it doesn't 

6. Snorkel - This is original to the car.... Just kidding, the front end was replaced. 

7. Seats not correct - We replaced these, the original ones had rough repairs done. Original ones are in my basement if anyone wants them. 

 

A Shout Out To Steve, I am thankful for your input, at no point were you careless with your responses, and offered as logical explanations as possible without our communication, it is truly appreciated. 

 

[bob02]

Geez, what a saga! Good luck selling it! Amazing amount of BS to have to go thru to sell a damn car.

 

Bob

[ray_]

1 minute ago, bob02 said:

Geez, what a saga! Good luck selling it! Amazing amount of BS to have to go thru to sell a damn car.

 

Bob

 

That's why he gets the big bucks!

 

Kidding aside, Mr. Inka'd makes good points. For me, the reason I didn't comment on BaT is that I wasn't interested in bidding and didn't want to appear to nitpick the car. Interested bidders should have been / be more vocal there if this thread concerned them. 

 

In further hindsight I see that the seller has been a member of this form for 8 years. Although he shouldn't necessarily have to, it may have been beneficial had he started a thread here informing listmembers that the car was live on BaT. Maybe that would eliminate future potential issues such as this.

 

Cheers,

[conkitchen]

1 hour ago, ray_ said:

 

That's why he gets the big bucks!

 

Kidding aside, Mr. Inka'd makes good points. For me, the reason I didn't comment on BaT is that I wasn't interested in bidding and didn't want to appear to nitpick the car. Interested bidders should have been / be more vocal there if this thread concerned them. 

 

In further hindsight I see that the seller has been a member of this form for 8 years. Although he shouldn't necessarily have to, it may have been beneficial had he started a thread here informing listmembers that the car was live on BaT. Maybe that would eliminate future potential issues such as this.

 

Cheers,

In a attempt to salve the wounds, I am publicly making an apology to Inka'd02.

Like what has been said, I did not bring up "my" concerns on BAT as that is not the forum to openly debate from afar, so this forum is where one goes to ask hard hitting questions. As a community here, we learn from one another, some of it good some not so much. If this car did not have a "snorkel" there would never have been issue. The other contributing factors "for me" was the notch, lack of any VIN images in the BAT listing ( at time of thread origin) and dark undercarriage photos. Those, plus the little other alterations just raised flags in my mind so I asked the experts. Again sorry it became a feeding frenzy, but when it comes to tii's-because they are climbing in value so rapidly, buying online and sight unseen, some want assurances. Too many people out there trying to cash in on the new 911. With only an 8 month ownership added fuel to the fire sounding like it was built for profit.  

 

In closing, the $99 BAT listing fee was like paying an expert to authenticate your car. It will sell for more likely as a result, and you can speak to it's attributes now like a Pebble Beach judge. 

 

 

Sorry sorry sorry! 

 

Okay can we still be friends? 

Edited July 3, 2019 by conkitchen

[Inka’d02]

Apologies appreciated and accepted. To be clear, BAT allows direct messaging. In the past any questions or concerns, from experts not interested in bidding, or potential bidders, have been addressed privately through that interface. In most cases we bring those private comments to light in case anyone else has that concern. You do not have to question anything publicly if that is your preference. This is our 5th car on BAT, and this one took them WEEKS to post, we generally do well there, which is why this experience was surprising.

 

Putting myself in the position of a potential bidder, there is a plethora of 02's at any time on BAT, I find this one, head to the FAQ, see this post, I move on, a vin swap is sketchy, and obviously raises ethics and honesty questions. If brought to light, I would have been wire wheeling the car the first hour the ad was up. It's a safe bet that my future photos will include dozens, if not hundreds of photos of the vin, and possibly expert testimony from a 70's carbon dating, steel specific metallurgist. 

 

If we could rename this thread, "This 2002tii is obviously legit, and has been expertly gone through, someone should buy it right now because it's probably so much fun I can't stand it" that would be appreciated . Yes, we can still be friends, no hard feelings. 

[artbo]

On 7/2/2019 at 6:37 AM, NYNick said:

I'm with Steve on this one. The stamped VIN on the right inner fender is very hard to duplicate or replace. Let's see that picture, loud and clear.

 

I purposely taped over the primer on mine before final paint exactly for this reason. Clarity!

 

1971 US spec 2002. What’s wrong with this picture??

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, Artboakrill said:

 

1971 US spec 2002. What’s wrong with this picture??

 

I’ll play, Art.

 

VIN 3573189. No such number. No such phone!

 

U.S.-spec 1971’s are 167xxxx and 257xxxx. Did someone repair a 257xxxx VIN and make it, inadvertently or intentionally, into a 357xxxx VIN?

 

Or is it a trick question, and the answer is “WTF: BMW never produced a robin’s egg blue!”

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Conserv

[artbo]

1 hour ago, Conserv said:

 

I’ll play, Art.

 

VIN 3573189. No such number. No such phone!

 

U.S.-spec 1971’s are 167xxxx and 257xxxx. Did someone repair a 257xxxx VIN and make it, inadvertently or intentionally, into a 357xxxx VIN?

 

Or is it a trick question, and the answer is “WTF: BMW never produced a robin’s egg blue!”

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Correct answer is, Fritz and Willie in the VIN stamping department we’re having a bad day when 3189 was coming down the line!?

Edited July 3, 2019 by Artboakrill
addition

[Conserv]

50 minutes ago, Artboakrill said:

 

Correct answer is, Fritz and Willie in the VIN stamping department we’re having a bad day when 3189 was coming down the line!?

 

 

Or maybe, Art, just maybe, they were having a very good day, what with that extra-long lunch break... ?

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[albatcha]

Let's not end this thread with the precedent being set that no car being auctioned or sold can be discussed on the forum, only direct questions should be sent to the seller. Bring A Trailer is not the 2002faq and it's not the place for 02 enthusiasts to discuss details with other 02 enthusiasts. I think it's fine to say whatever you want to say and not have to be required to inform every seller that you're discussing their car. It's reasonable and acceptable to be interested enough in a car to talk about it with your internet friends without being obligated seek answers from the seller. I don't think anyone who discussed this car was wrong for doing so. And for goodness sake there wasn't even a photo of the stamped VIN at the start of the listing.
 

Also Bring A Trailer is really the type of place where having a lot of photos and them being good photos will really help. No offense but this car really didn't wow me in the photos, some seemed overexposed, a little blurry, and it being overcast doesn't help either.

 

I think if the listing had 200 really nice detailed clear well lit photos of every important aspect of the car this forum post wouldn't have affected the auction at all.

 

I think the reason the notch looks strange is that it looks like it might have some kind of added trim on it that is obscuring the actual shape of where the metal is cut. Once again, if that is the case having a clear photo would have made that obvious and then it wouldn't have been a point of discussion.

 

Also I have a plug on the steering column cover of my 74 tii because a previous owner removed the fuel injection system and converted to a carb and hacked a big ugly hole for a choke. It looks like they tried to punch through the plastic with a hammer and a screwdriver. So even with the original column cover to the car I have a little cap there to cover the hole.

[Inka’d02]

I think the points were quite clear. No one said the car was perfect, by any stretch, and the reserve was set as such. No one said the cars can not be discussed. The point was, with a significant accusation of a vin swap, with the click of a button you can bring the seller into that conversation, it seems appropriate to do so.