Just strait up can't figure it out. $50 reward offered.

[Dudeland]

Took the car for a drive to log, but forgot the SIM card in my laptop.  I will post more data tomorrow, in both formats. 

 

Regards

M

[Holley Tech]

10 hours ago, Dudeland said:

Took the car for a drive to log, but forgot the SIM card in my laptop.  I will post more data tomorrow, in both formats. 

 

Regards

M

Good.  I look forward to digging into the files.  I have a couple of hunches that I'd like put to rest.  -Luke @ Holley Tech

[Dudeland]

I will post the CSV's shortly.   Something is going or gone wrong,  I am not sure what.  I don't think it is the 02 sensor.  I think in #37 0r #38, I would pull up to a light, and the loop comp would max out at 20,  next light it would be 1.  It wouldn't try to hit the target AFR, although it was well within CL limit.    It would just sit at 14.5 AFR at idle, when the target is 12.5.  

 

I feel that this is a bad omen.  If it is the 02, it will be my 3rd in 6-7 months.  If it isn't it is much more systematic.   

 

When the event was happening,  Fuel pressure was rock steady at 62 or 63 psi. 

 

When I went in to check the "actual" fuel pressure setting,  it was at 60psi, although in the software I have set it at 62.5 psi.   So I am not sure why that value is not being properly written to the TBI computer. 

 

 

Sniper_0040.dlz Sniper_0039.dlz Sniper_0038.dlz Sniper_0037.dlz Sniper_0036.dlz

[Dudeland]

Ok so where I am it is 4:56 am.  And I think that should be the first indication that something is really bothering me.    

 

So I am pretty sure the unit is dead   Why ?,  besides what I wrote above, after opening them up in the sniper software tool, the files are blank, which shows that the onboard ECU is no longer able to record a data log. 

 

The number of data logs does refer to the number of trips that I had, but there is no data in them. The blank files are being created,  but there is nobody home. 

 

I had suspected that the unit was bad for a couple of reasons.

 

1) Whenever I plugged into it, it would rarely sync properly the first time, and I would have to hit the button again.   The stored information about the actual fuel pressure not being there. 

 

2) The second reason I suspected the unit is that the TPS would flicker between 0 and 1.   New TPS switch went in,   I have brand new motor mounts in the car (like 8 months old) so the engine shake is minimal.  New I.E urethane mounts arrived to make it even more solid, just in case, it was tugging on the pedal for some reason, clearly, that is not the root cause of the problem.

 

3) New I.E header thinking that there was a problem with air leakage or sensor position causing the 02 sensors to fail but clearly, that wasn't the problem.  I have put three 02 sensors in the car in less than a year, 

 

So the way I am feeling now is that even if Holley repairs this thing under warranty, I really not sure if I trust the solution anymore. 

 

So at this point, I am reflecting on the objectives for converting to EFI,  and they are the following. 

 

1) Give the car EFI to control the fuel curve better than a carb: Objective not reached.

 

It simply wouldn't get with the program and really didn't manage the curve better than a carb.  

 

2) Use the EFI system to manage the AC: Objective not reached. 

 

In terms of fans, idle and perhaps advanced functions like shutting off while under WOT conditions technically the functionality was there, but I spent all my time trying to make it work, rather than installing my A/C. 

 

3) Increase the performance of the car: Objective reached

 

It would run better than a carb, but not as good as an EFI should. It would and pull nicely up to redline under WOT conditions.  The increase in throttle response was spot on, and under hard cornering, the car would not starve for fuel like when I had a carb on the car.

 

4) Learn about EFI systems and how to configure them: Objective kinda Reached

 

I learned more than I wanted to in regards to what to do and not to do with an EFI system, although I still do not know what good looks like. 

 

5) Lower the maintenance and tuning required: Objective not reached.

 

No. it was worse, waaaaaayyyy worse.  For all the time I spent on this, it has been a total and complete rat hole of forums, reading, consulting, thinking, testing , questions,  hypothesis testing, hoping etc.  Complete nightmare... nnoooooooo. 

 

6) Do something that has never been tried before:  Objective super duper reached. 

 

I know it sounds weird, but I love love love doing something new.  Life is too short to worry about failure.  How much less fun would it have been if I plopped the thing on and in 10 min it was running perfectly?  I wouldn't have had all the wonderful interactions and share great stories with the folks on this forum and other places as well.  And I would have learned virtually nothing.  

 

In the end, I think that is all I really wanted out of this.  The money spent I have already forgotten about.... well...  now that I think about it, i  am looking at a 500+ crank triggery pulley on my bench with a questionable future.

 

My point is how many times can I spend less than $2000 for a step into the unknown? For all I know it may still work, .... but probably not. 

 

So what comes next.....

 

Well, a call to Holley to start their troubleshooting process, and go through the RMA process ...maybe they decide it is a faulty unit and replace it under warranty.  That may involve a PM or two.    

 

I think it is time to rethink the objectives above and see if there is something else that fits the bill.    I am thinking a Haltech and some Jenvy TBI or heritage stuff.  Maybe a swap, maybe I am trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, we will see how things go.  If I do decide to change the system entirely,  I think I will give my buddy Adam a call and figure out something with him.

 

Regardless of what happens, It is important to note that every interaction with Holley has been wonderful.  The gentleman from Holley tech that has chimed in on this forum is not the exception but the rule in terms of reaching out and helping fellow petrolheads realize their dreams.  He and I have had many interactions regarding my challenges and his words of advice have carried me this far. 

 

I have spent more years than I care to remember in technology and many of them in creating call center customer care and support solutions, and in my opinion Holley support ranks up there with companies like Godaddy and Apple.  Not many know how hard it is to create a culture that inspires its people to act selflessly, but it is the exception and not the rule and should be acknowledged for what it is.

 

I will let you folks know what Holley has to say.   What to do with the $50 reward?  Perhaps I can donate it to charity on behalf of the 2002 forums... let's cross that bridge shortly.  Let me sort out the TBI unit first,  as I don't think anyone had called a faulty control unit.

 

Regards

 

Edited May 25, 2019 by Dudeland

[grizzlebar]

Good run down on the objectives. I hope this was a one off unit failure and after (assuming a Holley) replacement it gives you no issues

[Dudeland]

Good run down on the objectives. I hope this was a one off unit failure and after (assuming a Holley) replacement it gives you no issues

Not the first one to fail. But you always hear about the bad ones.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[irdave]

That sucks- sure would have been nice to plug it in and 10 minutes later never have to look at it again.  I was thinking about this solution for my friend's old Bronco with the 302.  We put a carb on it for the time being.

 

On to Haltech!  I'll finally have the chance to start installing mine the first part of July.  I'm excited.  I know Jim's works well.

 

K24?

[grizzlebar]

That sucks- sure would have been nice to plug it in and 10 minutes later never have to look at it again.  I was thinking about this solution for my friend's old Bronco with the 302.  We put a carb on it for the time being.
 
On to Haltech!  I'll finally have the chance to start installing mine the first part of July.  I'm excited.  I know Jim's works well.
 
K24?

Can you put up a detailed blog on the installation? I’m still on the fence as to which route I want to go

[AustrianVespaGuy]

On 5/25/2019 at 9:34 AM, Dudeland said:

I know it sounds weird, but I love love love doing something new.  Life is too short to worry about failure.  How much less fun would it have been if I plopped the thing on and in 10 min it was running perfectly?  I wouldn't have had all the wonderful interactions and share great stories with the folks on this forum and other places as well.  And I would have learned virtually nothing.

I'm really, really glad you see things this way! Getting the most out of the journey and taking pride in what you learned really are just as important as the results, in my opinion.  Shame you couldn't get it to stick the landing though, but the silver lining of course is that now it seems you might have another fun adventure in the pipeline! But seriously, kudos for really having a good mindset about it all!

[irdave]

2 hours ago, grizzlebar said:

 

Can you put up a detailed blog on the installation? I’m still on the fence as to which route I want to go

 

 

For the Haltech?  I'll try to take pictures and notes- probably ought to for posterity for myself anyway...

[Dudeland]

8 hours ago, irdave said:

That sucks- sure would have been nice to plug it in and 10 minutes later never have to look at it again.  I was thinking about this solution for my friend's old Bronco with the 302.  We put a carb on it for the time being.

 

On to Haltech!  I'll finally have the chance to start installing mine the first part of July.  I'm excited.  I know Jim's works well.

 

K24?

There are great applications for SBC or SBF, and frankly, I think that this one is where it should live.   It is not a 10 min install, but they do have a place in the market.  

 

The handful of people who I talked to in real life really like them.   In fact, the only complaint that people have had is that it makes their engine go from a lumpy choppy bark to a smooth sounding daily, simply because their carb was out of wack and the dizzy was worn out. 

 

I can't remember who on the site said it, but it could be because the injectors simply can't operate properly at such low duty cycles. 

 

I will ring up Holley tomorrow and get the RMA process started. 

 

 

 

 

[irdave]

17 hours ago, irdave said:

 

For the Haltech?  I'll try to take pictures and notes- probably ought to for posterity for myself anyway...

You guys do realize my Haltech is going on an s14 that's already running Motronic 1.0, right?

[AustrianVespaGuy]

1 hour ago, irdave said:

You guys do realize my Haltech is going on an s14 that's already running Motronic 1.0, right?

But that doesn't actually matter much, does it? Don't you still need to add a proper TPS sensor, wideband O2, IAT, and then tune it, just like one would coming from a carbed M10?  Might be able to reuse a few more original wires, but that's the only advantage I see, unless I'm missing something.

[irdave]

2 hours ago, AustrianVespaGuy said:

But that doesn't actually matter much, does it? Don't you still need to add a proper TPS sensor, wideband O2, IAT, and then tune it, just like one would coming from a carbed M10?  Might be able to reuse a few more original wires, but that's the only advantage I see, unless I'm missing something.

 

Wouldn't think so- just trying to manage expectations...

[Dudeland]

Ok so I removed the TBi and express shipped it down to Bowling Green KY.    That isn't that big a deal. 

 

I consider myself a lucky person, and I just happened to call into the customer service queue, and guess who I got on the line?  The exact Holley tech that has helped me out on this thread.  I can't tell you how surprised  I was when he said.... "wait a second... you aren't the guy from the BMW 2002 Faq site are you?"  I said yes, we laughed a bit,  I thanked him for his help, and we arranged to have the unit tested at their facility.  

 

It would be nice if they found something wrong, but all in all, it has been a great learning experience. 

 

It reminds me of the Churchill quote.  "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning". 

 

We will know soon if it is going to work for my application,  or we can start looking at other options. 

 

Regards