Importing a 2002 to France...any advice?

[swizman]

So, I've decided to pack it all up and move to France.  Polaris ('76 2002) has just emerged from a daily driver "B level" restoration, and I'd like to take the little bugger with me to France. 

 

I'm looking for anyone who might have some advice on what might be involved at the receiving port (likely Fos sur Mer, near Marseille; or Le Havre).  I have contacted a few shippers who seem to think that their agents will be able to usher it through customs without any issues.  But I was wondering if there was anyone out there with recent experience who can confirm that before I drop $3000 to ship it over there.

 

Then, I was wondering how sticky do the French get on assessing "road-worthiness" of the car when registration time approaches.  My French contacts seem to thing the FFVE helps you get an "Old Timer" exemption and the Certificate of Conformity, and it's not too bad.  But I wonder if it's really that simple.  My concerns: 

1.  14" wheels instead of the 13" wheels. 

2.  Weber/K&N set up vs the stock Solex/Stock air cleaner.

3.  All emission systems have been removed/disabled.

Everything else is pretty well stock.

 

I'd greatly appreciate any thoughts, or even recommendations on shippers, as I have not yet committed to any one company.

 

Thanks!

 

sidebar: Malaga was sold by the way, and the the new owner is really showing it a lot of love.  Nice to see that!

Schwarz and Granatrot (and probably a a bunch of parts) will likely go up for sale early this summer. 

 

 

[swizman]

Bump for this question.

I have feelers out to the FFVE (French Classic Car Federation) and to the BMWCCA.  But while I'm waiting on them, still putting the question to the forum. Still wondering if I'm gonna run into a brick wall with my "modifications". Thanks!

[Simeon]

You need to get in touch with @NickVyse who lives in France and is going to be the best chance to answer your questions. 

[Oldtimerfahrer]

Hi,

I've been in Europe since 1993 and I have imported two cars from the US but not to France, moved a few between countries as well. Rotterdam NL is the port and country of choice for higher value classic car imports into the EU. Lots of shippers and lowest tax. May not make logistically sense for you, limited tax savings.

You can drive the vehicle though if you insure it, your US insurance is useless. If you are moving your household, then get a customs broker to take care of the whole lot. The German TUV is very picky, they allow only correct rim size with correct offset (not what the posers can place in their arches). I would think the filter would be ok, absence of emissions is ok since a French market car had none and the emissions tests are rather rudimentary, so any properly tuned car should pass. I had issues with lights and Speedos, in Sweden they got really picky about seatbelts. The EU only gets tough after MY 1999/2000, because then EU compliance directives tightened. A car from early 1970's has no Certificate of conformity, the ffve provides you with a surrogate for this document. A military vehicle with no certification can be very expensive to register. I had no issues in NL, or Germany with customs since the customs categories are defined. The registration process is also straightforward, requiring proof of customs payment and your title. The inspection itself is more interesting, but my experience is not in France. I bought a Triumph in France, but it had been there since new and had no mods. I googled this, maybe it helps....

https://www.survivefrance.com/t/classic-cars-and-the-certificate-of-conformity/9476/5

Good luck !

Andrew

 

[tzei]

A couple of thoughts to go...

 

1. You need to convert lightning to ones with E-markings if not already so marked.

2. Seat belts has to have E-markings too.

3. Put 2 (two) at least those moisture absorbing thingies inside the vehicle or chances are it's has so much mold inside that you'll have to give it a name.

[jireland2002]

Off topic--  Oldtimerfahrer - Are you in Latvia?  I'll be in Riga in June.  A beer in old town?

Jeff

[Oldtimerfahrer]

Hi Jeff,

I am in Riga Thu to Sunday, but will be there for much of June, so happy to meet. June is the best time to visit Latvia, if you need any suggestions, let me know. There is a race track in the city and a smallish ok ish car museum too. We have a track day planned for the 9th, which had a mix of all kinds of cars, predominately 1980's. Let me know what your trip dates are!

Andrew

[NickVyse]

what they said. 14" wheels might be a problem if they notice when the car's inspected, but you'd only have to swap for the purposes of registration (find a local 02 owner to to swap your wheels with for a week) and they'll never be a problem with the biannual controle technique (or every 5 years if they register it as a voiture historique).

 

I have never done this myself, but know a few that have. If you're fluent in French, very patient and have time to faff about, queue, are great with endless forms, faffing, queuing, finding at the last hurdle you're missing a full point on sub section 4 of form 3b and you have to start again then it'll be easy. The French taught the vogons about bureaucracy (and poetry).

 

If you're none of the above you'll soon wish you'd sold it and bought another one here. Or Hitch Hiked to another galaxy.

 

In case you didn't know this is the French Club forum http://forum.horizon2002.com/index.php

 

[edit it REALLY helps your case if your engine VIN matches the chassis, and I doubt they'll care about the filter, but if they do then there's always the helpful bloke who loaned you the wheels!]

Edited March 21, 2019 by NickVyse

[SydneyTii]

13 hours ago, NickVyse said:

If you're fluent in French, very patient and have time to faff about, queue, are great with endless forms, faffing, queuing, finding at the last hurdle you're missing a full point on sub section 4 of form 3b and you have to start again then it'll be easy. The French taught the vogons about bureaucracy (and poetry).

? Bloody French........ I love it!

Edited March 21, 2019 by SydneyTii

[swizman]

 

Thanks to everyone for those helpful insights!

It it is reassuring to hear that the emissions will likely not be an issue.  I was given a hint at this by the local FFVE chapter president but nothing I was able to get a good foothold on.  This was my biggest worry, although I probably have enough parts in my stash to cobble something together that would fake it well enough.

I'm not sure about everyone else out there, but it takes me a few years to get a car to a place where I "know" it.  I've had this one since 2004, and Polaris is finally in that place for me.  I put some effort to get the appearance, motor and chassis where I want it.  Not fancy showcar, or tuned track addict - but with nice paint, a sensible interior and just a fun motor.  Daily driver, not done up to a point where I'd be worried about parking it on the street.  It's not really sentimental. Just a good solid car that looks and drives the way I think an '02 should.

Andrew and Nick:  My sincere thanks for your guidance on cost versus benefit in regards this project. Your comments have really sunk in.  I am MOST concerned about the inspection bureaucracy, and I agree with Nick that this is the biggest unknown in the equation.  After torturing the people of NV as a state employee with forms and fees for a dozen years, one would think I have at least a leg up on the situation.  But, Nick makes a humorous and unfortunately true point: the French take forms and fees to a new level.

Nick, thanks for filling in the blanks on what the FFVE provides and why they must offer a C of C for an old timer car.  That little nugget was very helpful.

tzei:  Much thanks to you as well.  This is exactly the the kind of little hurdles I need to be aware of.  I suspected the wheels, but the seat belts?  And lights?  And the tip of enclosing a the moisture absorbing pack during shipping is a great one.

MY DECISION: For the moment head over, get settled into my new place and get the lay of the land on this thing...perhaps make a few contacts at the local inspection station and see what they're looking for.  Also see what my 2002 purchase options are over there, however the offerings on Le Bon Coin were sparse when I checked about two weeks ago. 

Nick, Andrew, tzei (or other '02 folk): if either of you find yourself in my neck of the woods, don't hesitate to look me up.  My forum presence will be spottier than the usual spotty for the next several weeks.  My email is a better option for contact:  thermalsea@gmail.com

Again, my very sincere thanks to everyone who helped me get to this decision point.

 

Cheers!

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

[Oldtimerfahrer]

Hi Mark,

There are lots of 02's for sale in Germany (See mobile.de). They standardized the registration and title documents in Europe a few years ago, so unless the vehicles hasn't changed hands in a long time, a German car will have papers that a French authority will be able to process (if they are motivated).

Good luck,

Andrew

[swizman]

Thanks so much Andrew,

 

That's very helpful information.  I should be in France in about a week.  I'm going to start shopping for an '02 series car probably in mid May to see what turns up.

 

I suspect a translation of the documents that come with a German car is in order, but that's a relatively easy hurdle to clear compared to shipping and registering a US market car.

[Oldtimerfahrer]

Hi,

The new registrations dont need to be translated, they are standardized like the EU driving license. The fields are numbered and the meaning is known independent of language. This only applies to cars with current registration. I am often in Stuttgart if you happen to find something interesting there. My son is in Hamburg, he is more into e30's but has a fair knowledge of 02s as well. If you want someone to take a look before you travel to Germany.

A.

[swizman]

To offer closure, nearly 3 years later...with all of the covid travel and shipping delays, Polaris is finally in France.  Arrived in Rotterdam late December.  Road tripped up from south of France to pick it up.  Arrived in good condition, 6 months after I dropped it off with Schumacher in Long Beach.  But all's well that ends well, and the car is sitting in my little village parking lot... waiting for me to do "a little" paperwork! ?

 

Thanks again for all of the excellent guidance I received so long ago.  It all helped!

[NickVyse]

Hi Mark, good news. And on the upside due to covid now everything can be done online, so you won't have to queue in the local prefecture.

 

I bought a car in Greece last year and the registration has so far been really easy. Combination of the process being online and probably because I've already been through the learning curve with a 7 series from Portugal. Yours might be harder as it's not imported from another EU country.

 

Good luck, Nick (ps you have mail)