Help me work out what engine I have!?

[APka]

Good day to you all!

I'm here to seek enlightenment regarding my grandfathers 1502, that I am now the proud owner of. To give you a bit of back story. He purchased the car in 1976. During the 80s, he somehow ended up in a local garage in London, and was swindled into getting his engine refurbished. After which he was convinced that he no longer had his original engine, and that the local mechanic had simply swapped out one of his other engines in, but being a trustworthy man, and someone with no mechanical experience, he never thought to check more in depth.

Skip to today : 
Whilst removing my clutch, due to a whistling whilst pressing the clutch when driving, I discovered that the clutch is not one of a 1502 (200mm), but rather a 215mm. This first element alarmed me, and has now made me check a bit more.

I have discovered that the engine has "E21 16" written on it, and that the carburetor is a 36-40 PDSI Solex...
On the engine there is also written "1255 223" which i'm guessing is the engine's VIN number...

Would anyone be able to help me identify which engine is now actually in my car? 
Please feel free to ask me any questions in order to find markings written anywhere or whatsoever !

Thanks in advance!

[Mark92131]

There is a VIN Number on the flat boss above the starter that will allow you to cross reference the car the motor was in originally.  Should start with 416XXXX and match the VIN plate and the stamp on the passenger front wing if the motor is original to the car.  I thought the 1502's were just a lower compression version of the 2002, and would expect a 215mm clutch in a 1976.  That E21 head was cast in April 1976, possibly replacement head, or original to the car it came out of. 

 

A really nice 1502 was recently on BAT, but no pictures of the cylinder head ID.

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1975-bmw-1502-2/

 

Mark92131

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by Mark92131

[Son of Marty]

Well I don't know a lot about the 1502s as they never made it to the states but the head was cast in 1976 did the 1502 and the 1602 share the same head? was the number you stated stamped into the block above the starter motor if so thats the vin of the car it was originally in and BMW can tell you what that was or someone here that has the vin decoder chart. What is the vin of your car it should be on a plate on the right fender wing under the hood?

?

[APka]

The cars original VIN number is : 3810728 (confirmed by BMW Group's Julia Oberndörfer) ...

[Mark92131]

20 minutes ago, APka said:

The cars original VIN number is : 3810728 (confirmed by BMW Group's Julia Oberndörfer) ...

 

3810728 should appear on the boss above the starter if the motor is original to the car.  If not, the motor was swapped in from a different car and you can use the decoder below to determine which car it came from.  Apparently VIN 416XXXX if for the LHD models of the 1502 and VIN 381XXXX was for the RHD versions.

 

If the motor in your car doesn't have a number on the boss, or does not match a valid VIN, it most likely is a factory re-manufactured motor.

 

https://www.bmwclasicos.com/servicios.php

 

Mark92131

Edited May 23, 2018 by Mark92131

[APka]

35 minutes ago, Mark92131 said:

 

3810728 should appear on the boss above the starter if the motor is original to the car.  If not, the motor was swapped in from a different car and you can use the decoder below to determine which car it came from.  Apparently VIN 416XXXX if for the LHD models of the 1502 and VIN 381XXXX was for the RHD versions.

 

If the motor in your car doesn't have a number on the boss, or does not match a valid VIN, it most likely is a factory re-manufactured motor.

 

https://www.bmwclasicos.com/servicios.php

 

Mark92131

 

Do you have any information regarding the type of VIN numbers that would match the E21 316 line? As this would be a possibile option..

 

Thanks in advance,

[Mark92131]

1 hour ago, APka said:

Do you have any information regarding the type of VIN numbers that would match the E21 316 line? As this would be a possibile option..

 

Thanks in advance,

 

By 1979 BMW was using the ISO standard for VIN Number (17 Digits), so I'm not sure if they were stamping the last 7 digits of the 17 digit VIN number on E21 316 models on the block for these cars.  For example, VIN # WDMY7AM07Y7000797 is a 1979 E21 316 model, but I don't know if 7000797 is stamped on the block of these cars.  I am assuming that 1975 - 78 E21 316 models were using the 7 digit VIN numbers, starting in 510XXX.  Is anything stamped on the boss above the starter on your car's motor?

 

Mark92131

Edited May 23, 2018 by Mark92131

[APka]

2 hours ago, Mark92131 said:

 

By 1979 BMW was using the ISO standard for VIN Number (17 Digits), so I'm not sure if they were stamping the last 7 digits of the 17 digit VIN number on E21 316 models on the block for these cars.  For example, VIN # WDMY7AM07Y7000797 is a 1979 E21 316 model, but I don't know if 7000797 is stamped on the block of these cars.  I am assuming that 1975 - 78 E21 316 models were using the 7 digit VIN numbers, starting in 510XXX.  Is anything stamped on the boss above the starter on your car's motor?

 

Mark92131

Indeed, above the starter is stamped : 125 5 223 ..

[Conserv]

The E21 head came in at least two displacement versions: an E21 2,0, for 2-liter engines, and an E21 1,6, for 1.6-liter engines.  The 1502 has a 1.6-liter engine — same basic engine as the 1602 — but with a reduced compression ratio, so that it would play nicely with the low-octane fuels found in third-world countries — I’m probably not allowed to use that term, tough!

 

My photo of the head identification is cut off and I can’t say for certain the casting date ends with 4 nubs (each nub denotes one month).  Let’s look at a broader photograph of the head’s casting date and confirm that it is, indeed, an April 1976 head.

 

Has anyone looked at the casting date on the block? Assuming it’s simply an M10, it should be located on the right side of the block, roughly between the cylinder 1 and cylinder 2 freeze plugs. For more background, see the following:

 

 

Lastly, what is the car’s manufacturing date? Send a email with the chassis VIN  (and engine number if the VIN and engine number are different) to BMW Archives and request their date on the car(s). The email address is:  info.grouparchiv@bmwgroup.com

 

Based on the manufacturing date, we can assess whether that head could be original to the car. And based on the manufacturing date, and the block’s casting date, we can assess whether the block could be original to the car.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by Conserv

[Conserv]

7 minutes ago, APka said:

Indeed, above the starter is stamped : 125 5 223 ..

 

We need a photo of this! (We’re photo-obsessed...)

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Steve

 

[APka]

1 minute ago, Conserv said:

 

We need a photo of this! (We’re photo-obsessed...)

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Steve

 

Based on what I just read in your linked thread, I am incorrect, and the number is not that of a VIN number. I will check the correct number tomorrow based off of your photos !

[Conserv]

31 minutes ago, APka said:

Indeed, above the starter is stamped : 125 5 223 ..

 

Let’s distinguish between “stamped” and “cast”.  

 

In the first photo below, the same number, “1255223”, is cast into an engine block that was cast April 11, 1972 (“11D” cast within an oval frame and “72” cast just above that oval frame). This number is on the right side of this block (but towards the left in this photo), near the top and rear of the block. This is a casting number, which may or may not resemble the engine block’s part number. It is not the engine number.

 

In the second photo below, “+2761590+” and “2,0” are stamped into the engine number boss.  2761590 is the engine number — originally the same number as the chassis VIN — and “2,0” indicates this is a 2-liter block.

 

I suspect you haven’t found the engine number boss yet, or...the engine number boss is blank, and thus hasn’t revealed any information.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by Conserv

[APka]

3 minutes ago, Conserv said:

 

Let’s distinguish between “stamped” and “cast”.  In the first photo below, the same number, “1255223”, is cast into an engine block that was cast April 11, 1972 (“11D” cast within an oval frame and “72” cast just above that oval frame).  This is a casting number, which may or may not resemble the engine block’s part number. It is not the engine number.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Yes I know understand my mistake haha,

 

I have the same Cast number on the top left. In the oval, I have 21A written.

[Conserv]

10 minutes ago, APka said:

Yes I know understand my mistake haha,

 

I have the same Cast number on the top left. In the oval, I have 21A written.

 

We’re making progress! The “21A” indicates it was cast January 21, but there will also be a two-digit year somewhere in the vicinity.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[APka]

9 hours ago, Conserv said:

 

We’re making progress! The “21A” indicates it was cast January 21, but there will also be a two-digit year somewhere in the vicinity.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Ok so I found the number ! 

1656688