Visual difference between Tii exh manifold and standard 2002

[TobyB]

Oh, here we go. I looked at the 7 manifolds I had on top of a pile of transmissions

today.

121 142 01 80 9 casting came off a 1974 tii motor. It has a 'bulge' on

its side, one drilled bung, and big webs between runners. It also has a

beefy output flange. This has 2 potential 'bungholes'- one drilled.

121 142 01 80 1 castings: I had 3. None have bulges. One has a beefy output

flange (identifiable by one blind hole, 2 through holes on the output)

the other 2 have a lighter casting. ALL of these have the heavy webs

between the runners. One had a crack, 2 of the 3 have one or more bungs

drilled for EGR. The beefy out flange has 3 potential bungs, the other

2 have only 2 cast into them.

121 142 01 82-9 castings: I had 3. They all have air rails. They also

show the 'heavy' vs 'light' output flange. None have bulges.

ALL have the heavy webs between runners.

I have several manifolds with smaller webs- they must be in a different pile.

So from this pretty limited sample, I posit that there are a BUTT- TON of

casting plugs that got used for manifolds. If I ever find my moulding

kit, I'll try doing a mould of the tii innards vs a 'non- pudge' one.

I really do wonder if there's much difference. I kinda don't think so.

I wish I had a working camera at the shop.

There you go.

t

[PatAllen]

Oh, here we go. I looked at the 7 manifolds I had on top of a pile of transmissions

today.

121 142 01 80 9 casting came off a 1974 tii motor. It has a 'bulge' on

its side, one drilled bung, and big webs between runners. It also has a

beefy output flange. This has 2 potential 'bungholes'- one drilled.

121 142 01 80 1 castings: I had 3. None have bulges. One has a beefy output

flange (identifiable by one blind hole, 2 through holes on the output)

the other 2 have a lighter casting. ALL of these have the heavy webs

between the runners. One had a crack, 2 of the 3 have one or more bungs

drilled for EGR. The beefy out flange has 3 potential bungs, the other

2 have only 2 cast into them.

121 142 01 82-9 castings: I had 3. They all have air rails. They also

show the 'heavy' vs 'light' output flange. None have bulges.

ALL have the heavy webs between runners.

I have several manifolds with smaller webs- they must be in a different pile.

So from this pretty limited sample, I posit that there are a BUTT- TON of

casting plugs that got used for manifolds. If I ever find my moulding

kit, I'll try doing a mould of the tii innards vs a 'non- pudge' one.

I really do wonder if there's much difference. I kinda don't think so.

I wish I had a working camera at the shop.

There you go.

t

this is interesting.

From the pic, the bumps at the very beggining of the runner to clear studs on thoses manifolds realy makes me wonder (all the non-air injected ones has them), beyond thoses it doesnt realy make sens to make the runner larger or different if its a Tii or not. The bumps severly impede air flow by themselves, any increase in runner size wont show airflow improements imho. I dont see why BMW engineers would have made 2 specific (or more) manifolds depending if its a Tii or not, castings molds might be expensive, if i where such german engineer of that era, i would have made them ALL flow well, ie, not a "good" one and a "bad" one.

I buy the idea that Tii runs afr a bit leaner than a carb so the manifolds where suffering from some overheat. OR, the casting on some ended up larger for no real reasons, since there is several different castings anyway.

[jb02]

After reading this post and others on the FAQ regarding Tii manifolds, I am still confused as to what visually identifies an early vs late Tii manifold.  The photo's below are of the manifold that came on my '72 Tii.  Is this the correct manifold... I don't see the often references "bulge".

[NickVyse]

On 7/12/2011 at 2:40 PM, PatAllen said:

11621265449 taken from a 72Tii euro seems to fit all theses cars in realoem...

Part 11621265449 (Exhaust manifold) was found on the following 114 vehicles:

114 2000 Touring, M10, Europe, AUTO (2636) : Exhaust manifold

114 2000 Touring, M10, Europe, MANUAL (2631) : Exhaust manifold

114 2000 Touring, M10, Europe, RHD, MANUAL (2632) : Exhaust manifold

114 2000tii Touring, M10, Europe, MANUAL (2661) : Exhaust manifold.... etc

 

Another example of REALOEM not being accurate: the RHD manifold is different to LHD, points a bit further towards the bulkhead and the inner wing and the down pipe is different to mate up with the centre section which is the same for both right and left hand drive.

[halboyles]

According to the hallowed Parts Manual the tii/ti/standard exhaust manifold for all European cars and the US tii are the same.  It is only the US cars with emissions equipment that differ with the main appearance difference being the lack of any porting for the emission connections on the tii version.  In the pics the center manifold is a "tii" manifold and there are no external connections for emissions equipment.  Note that the other two have extensive modifications for emissions.

Edited May 22, 2019 by halboyles

[jb02]

Hal-  I noticed that the casting number on your center photo Tii manifold ends in 80  9..... whereas the casting number on my manifold ends in 80  1.  Any explanation of the difference... mine came of an early '72.

[Conserv]

43 minutes ago, jb02 said:

After reading this post and others on the FAQ regarding Tii manifolds, I am still confused as to what visually identifies an early vs late Tii manifold.  The photo's below are of the manifold that came on my '72 Tii.  Is this the correct manifold... I don't see the often references "bulge".

 

That’s the right one. 

 

Yes, I, too, found this particular thread confusing. My ‘73 has the same manifold as you’ve shown. My tii manifolds have no drilled or bunged ports for air injection. My — admittedly hazy — recollection is that there was a very early version with thin or no webbing, and these promptly cracked.

 

There are more recent, and more clear, threads than this on the subject.

 

Below is my ‘73’s manifold, and its spare.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Conserv

[halboyles]

6 minutes ago, jb02 said:

whereas the casting number on my manifold ends in 80  1.

 

I have seen several different casting numbers on these "tii" manifolds.  Here is one from a standard Euro 2002 that has the same casting numbers as yours.  I personally think that the claims of the superiority of the "tii" manifold are overblown.  After all, it appears it was also used on the Euro 2002 automatics!

[Conserv]

27 minutes ago, jb02 said:

Hal-  I noticed that the casting number on your center photo Tii manifold ends in 80  9..... whereas the casting number on my manifold ends in 80  1.  Any explanation of the difference... mine came of an early '72.

 

I believe there were at least two — probably more — different casting numbers on “authentic” tii manifolds. I don’t believe, however, that we’ve seen sufficient raw data — e.g., VIN and associated manifold casting number — to draw conclusions as to when a “...80 9” replaced the “...80 1”. Was there a changeover at a particular VIN or date? Is one a factory replacement manifold, improved in some unseen way? No idea.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Conserv

[Conserv]

7 hours ago, halboyles said:

 

I have seen several different casting numbers on these "tii" manifolds.  Here is one from a standard Euro 2002 that has the same casting numbers as yours.  I personally think that the claims of the superiority of the "tii" manifold are overblown.  After all, it appears it was also used on the Euro 2002 automatics!

 

I believe, Hal, the superiority of the tii manifold is a “U.S. thing”. I believe it’s primarily in contrast to our ported and nozzled air injection versions that the tii manifold shines....?

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by Conserv

[PatAllen]

fwiw, i ran flow bench test on several manifold i have here....including a true identified "tii' manifold

 

==>>the differences are very marginal, i cant believe one can "feel" a difference, there are way too many other variables that could affect the flow in this magnitude.

 

surprisingly enough the one that flows the most is a "US smog type" with the injection tubes removed.

 

hth

[PatAllen]

fwiw #2

i concluded several years ago, with my flow tests, that i wouldnt go bankrupt for a Tii manifold...id rather go with a nice proven tubular header, if i ever had to waste money and time to change my current manifold, just to get that 2-5 increase in HP.

My other finding is that MAYBE the early Tii manifolds didnt had the bulges and bungs for the later smog equipements, and thus, may have flowed "more". So it is quite obvious that the early euro cars had such manifolds.

[Preyupy]

according to the BMW parts description the "Tii" manifold was used on ALL of the 1800 and 2000cc engines in all of the European models (without air injection)

The only US use was on the Tii .  It also got used on the Euro E21 318 and 320s as well as the 518 and 520 E 12 chassis.  I have never seen anyone do a back to back comparison between the manifolds on a dyno.  I would suspect that with a stock engine you will not find a measurable difference.  Once you start putting camshafts and carburetors on the engines there will start to be some difference but at that point a good tubular header is going to be even more of an advantage. 

 

11621265449

Exhaust manifold

From:

09/28/1976

To:

01/16/2012 (ENDED)

Weight:

6.040 kg

Price:

$402.05

Supersedes:

11620743100

(01/01/1970 — 07/12/1977)

Part 11621265449 was found on the following 114 vehicles:

• 1502-2002tii, 2000, Touring, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2631) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2000, Touring, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2632) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2000, Touring, M10, AUTO, EUR, (2636) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2000tii, Touring, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2661) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Convertible, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2251) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Convertible, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2252) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Convertible, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2573) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Convertible, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2577) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Convertible, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2578) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Sedan, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2211) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Sedan, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2212) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Sedan, M10, AUTO, EUR, (2221) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Sedan, M10, AUTO, EUR, (2222) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Sedan, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2551) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Sedan, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2553) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Sedan, M10, AUTO, EUR, (2556) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Sedan, M10, AUTO, EUR, (2557) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Sedan, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (ST11) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Sedan, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (ST13) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Sedan, M10, AUTO, EUR, (ST14) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Sedan, M10, AUTO, EUR, (ST15) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Touring, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2411) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002, Touring, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2412) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002ti, Sedan, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2554) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002tii, Sedan, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2231) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002tii, Sedan, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2232) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002tii, Sedan, M10, MANUAL, USA, (2233) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002tii, Sedan, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2581) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002tii, Sedan, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2582) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002tii, Sedan, M10, MANUAL, USA, (2583) : Exhaust manifold
• 1502-2002tii, 2002tii, Touring, M10, MANUAL, EUR, (2431) : Exhaust manifold