CARS (Car Allowance Rebate System) AKA: cash for clunkers

[Jim_75Sahara]

Does anyone else puzzle over the logic behind this Govt. program?? They are rewarding folks who stupidly bought Explorers, Suburbans, Grand Cherokees, Excursions, etc. a number of years ago during the SUV craze. We bought a '98 Saturn in early '98, so we cannot claim this "free" money. (Yeah, I should have gotten a gently used E30 4-door w/5 speed, but that's another story.) Taxpayer money comes from all of us, so it's a reallocation of resources for some grand purpose. Is this the best use of our money? Should the SUV's be run into the ground or should they be shredded when they still work reliably?? AND -- Where's my pat on the back for buying a fuel-efficient American car 11 yrs. ago?

[SteveJ]

Government tends to address the lowest common denominator.

I pride myself on NOT being a lowest common denominator.

Gets to be a pain in the butt when my choices are limited to "what the American public is wanting".

[stone02]

Hi,

just my little rant.

i thought this might work for me

because i am 45 and have NEVER bought

a new car. most of the stuff that i drive has

at least 250K miles. as it turns out i don't

qualify for this either because everything i

operate ,read 10 vehicles, are to old to

be junked. that just ain't right. i would love to

get rid of the 84 suburban, or the 84 300d.

both are good cars but the money toward

a high mileage car would help me over

the edge. the clunker thing should have been

for vehicles over 15 years only and meeting

all the other requirements. i think that both

my wife and i would have gotten new cars then.

stone

[2761377]

an honest discussion of this topic would be perfect for the ot/politics forum- except no real debate goes on there.

on the one hand are the inequities you've observed; on the other hand it seems hard to argue this is not a better way to help the car companies than just handing over a bunch of cash.

fwiw

robert w.

[gipper]

on the one hand are the inequities you've observed; on the other hand it seems hard to argue this is not a better way to help the car companies than just handing over a bunch of cash.

fwiw

robert w.

While I do see your point, the fact remains that this program rewards only those that bought gas guzzlers or people that can afford a new car right now.

Question is, what about the person that makes it a point to live close to work? Say in an urban setting and uses public transportationto get to work and back home. Should the government give them vouchers to buy a BART or MUNI pass? The price of public transportation keeps going up and service areas are being reduced.

What about the person that takes a carpool? They both help reduce emissions and "share" a ride to work.

Since the part of the spirit of this bill is to get gas guzzlers off the road, should'nt this same program reward those that are already making conscience decisions with regard to their tranportation methods.

Hell, I should get a kickback for making my '02 cleaner burning and getting better gas mileage!

[Kidasters]

I want a new car.

I want the government to subsidize me buying a new M5.

I pay a lot of taxes, and now it's my turn for a handout.

Because of my need for speed - I need to upgrade from the 225 hp of the E46 to the 500 hp of an M5 (or M6 if that's what they deem necessary).

I wish -

Actually - I really am upset about subsidizing people buying a new car. Because the car companies in the US can't run their business right, and because a lot of people made stupid choices, I have to bail them out.

Grrrrrrrr..............

[gipper]

It's not just US car makers benefiting. In fact, Honda and Toyota are selling more cars that the US brands.

I know that Hondas and Toyotas are made in the US but their parent companies are still Japanese.

Something's just not right! Especially with the news of Toyota pulling the plug on Nummi.

[Jim_75Sahara]

Robert: I did not put this topic in the Politics/OT section since it does not split along obvious Repub./Democrat lines. I have not decided what I think of this program yet. But --- there will be many unintended consequences & the road to hell is paved w/good intentions. A lively discussion is my aim. (not a Right vs. Left melee)

[KFunk]

Government tends to address the lowest common denominator.

Yeah, that very well may be it. The people that were smart enough to get efficient before don't really need as much guidance. Yeah, it'd be great to reward them, but we'd still have all the idiots out there pumping craploads of fuel thru their vehicles.

Yep, it seems unfair... but its the only way to make a real difference.

It's more of a mass herding, while helping out the car companies. Better yet, it might be a chance for some of the american car companies to re-earn their reputation with some of their recent cars. They may actually make some good and competitive models now, but they've gotta overcome the reputation they earned from their crap-cans in the 80s and 90s.

As for the real bad part... it just seems so painfully destructive to destroy the engines on so many cars. They're required to replace the oil with sodium silicate solution and run 'em till they seize. Check youtube for some painful videos that have been popping up.

I know they just want them off the road as part of a massive fleet overhaul, but damn thats just painful. Wish they coulda just stockpiled the engines somewhere....

[2002Monster]

Well, let me be clear... Honda and Toyota are publicly traded companies....so if you want to see some profit, go and buy their stocks. I hear the argument a lot here in Michigan......"Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign" or "All the profits go back to Japan!"......its all bullshit, and the people with those stickers on their cars are hypocrits.....everybody has Chinese or Korean electronics, and clothes.

And just to be even more clear, GM is pulling the plug on the Nummi agreement.....the only reason Toyota was in it in the first place was because GM paid them off. GM wanted to try and use Toyota's assembly and quality data to improve their other brands....Toyota didn't want, and doesn't care about GM, although they have small snipets in the media about how "they have concern for their North American counterparts"... Sure they do....

The bottom line is that the "Cash for Clunkers" program is purely a union-busting initiative. Once the US car makers close up most of their domestic plants and suppliers, the union will have choice but to disband.

When that happens, the federal government will be able to monopolize on any and every social program to "help the people"

Here is something I found on Youtube .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7uOIm9TdQs&feature=related

It's not just US car makers benefiting. In fact, Honda and Toyota are selling more cars that the US brands.

I know that Hondas and Toyotas are made in the US but their parent companies are still Japanese.

Something's just not right! Especially with the news of Toyota pulling the plug on Nummi.

[SteveJ]

Not to stray too far from the original subject:

A neat bit of info I recently heard was that China was the fourth largest consumer of goods/services from California. It would be interesting to see who are the large consumers of products from the states that are typically thought of as "all American". Where does all that corn and soy bean product go?

Think globally, because we are there.

[2761377]

Robert: I did not put this topic in the Politics/OT section since it does not split along obvious Repub./Democrat lines. I have not decided what I think of this program yet. But --- there will be many unintended consequences & the road to hell is paved w/good intentions. A lively discussion is my aim. (not a Right vs. Left melee)

there is one aspect of this program's success that is incontestable- peoples' greed. that for sure crosses party lines and is near universal among the great, unwashed masses.

it seems that most of the scepticism shown here and by my circle of associates stems from a belief system based on personal responsibility. smart choices made in the past aren't as 'beneficial' as those made by irresponsible aquisitionists (i just invented that word). similar frustration is found in those of us who did not over-extend ourselves with false home equity. in these cases, truly virtue is its own (& only) reward.

robert w.

[skipsfcr]

My industry (auto repair) was one of the biggest opponents of the program. Rightly so, as I'm already learning. I've had three customers driving older BMW's tell me they intended to try to get rebate credit for their cars...In lieu of what are frankly, in my opinion, rather modest repair estimates. In fact these vehicles aren't even guzzlers. A '93 E36 (for example) with a leaking p/s pump...Hell it's a 25mpg car...But there's a reasonable credit for trading it in, as it's only worth about $3K max with the leak repaired. This program will miss the target...Imagine that!?

[Jim_75Sahara]

Robert: I think you & I agree on this issue for the most part.

Skip: Sorry about the decrease in your auto repair business. Up until recently, at least, local auto repair shops were very busy fixing higher mileage cars. (incl. mine) Destroying cars that still function/have value is hard for me to support. The more I learn, the more I have major reservations about this govt. program.

[skipsfcr]

Thanks Jim. Actually repairs & service are still pretty strong. We're definitely ahead of where we were last year at this time. It's just shameful to me to see decent, fairly economical cars eligible for this program. I'd like to see the throngs of older SUV's retired from around here. I guess people like spending all their money on gasoline. Spend, spend, spend...Buy, buy, buy...That'll fix the problem!