Dash heater control bezel plate removal on early (69) 2002

[James Laray]

Now to tackle the fan that doesn't work.   Over the years it sure does take a beating in the cowl with rain and dust.   Looks like the electric connections could be so corroded and simply don't to make contact. 

 

So,

 

1) clean up and bench test with the ol' 12v car battery.  Is this as simple as positive to red terminal and negative to brown terminal on motor?   

 

2) could I clean and lubricate with it in place?  Not sure how to clean a little electric motor. 

 

3) If necessary, how do I release the clips?  Is there a type of reverse plier like a C lip compressor to use? 

 

 I did buy the Blunt rebuild kit for the box in general and have drilled out the rivets to separate the box.   pull the heater core to pressure test. I will Want to get that motor working first.  

 

@jgerock @Mike Self (faithful early 02ers) thoughts?  

 

  

[Mark92131]

52 minutes ago, James Laray said:

Is this as simple as positive to red terminal and negative to brown terminal on motor? 

 

Yes

 

I would try to get it working in place.  First try to get the fan to turn by sticking a wooden dowel through the slats on the motor housing and try moving the fan blades.  If it spins easily, hook up a 12V source and see if it spins.  If the fan doesn't turn by hand, you need to lube the motor until it does spin freely.  This may require drilling out the rivets to break down the box to remove the motor from the housing.  Don't lose the 4 clips that hold the motor to the housing.  These just hook on to the motor and are easily removed from the housing by lifting the end with a flat screw driver at the housing.

 

Mark92131

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mark92131

[Mark92131]

James:

 

When I restored my early heater box, the fan motor was toast.  I used the Auto Dynamik fix to purchase a Porsche Fan, Bosch, part # 0 130 007 002 for around $60 and the $6 Granger plastic computer fan, part # 5JLL6 and drilled it 15/64 for a press on fit.  Worked perfect and used the original clips to mount it back in the top section of the Heater box.  Replaced the wiring and this piece was done.  Hopefully your fan motor can be revived, but this work around may work for you, if your fan motor is dead.

 

Mark92131

 

 

[James Laray]

@Mark92131  you noted "plastic bracket that holds the heater valve was cracked" 

 

Looks like you riveted into place a replacement bracket.  Where from?  

 

also,

 

did you replace the o-ring in the brass valve? 

 

 

[Mike Self]

1 hour ago, James Laray said:

you noted "plastic bracket that holds the heater valve was cracked" 

 

Looks like you riveted into place a replacement bracket.  Where from?  

Truth be told, the two hoses that the valve is sandwiched between are so stiff that the bracket isn't really that necessary.  The bracket on my '69 broke when I had the heater box out and was repairing the control cables, testing the heater core for leaks and massaging the motor.  I reassembled things, prepared to make a metal replacement bracket from a scrap piece of angle aluminum, until I realized that working the control cables didn't move the valve more than a mm or two.  And that was something like 25 years ago...still working.

 

mike

[Mark92131]

3 hours ago, James Laray said:

Where from? 

 

Home Depot, in the section that has metal parts to support building with 4x4 and 2x4 lumber.  It was the exact size to fit the plastic bracket and I secured it with bolts and nuts, not rivets.  Like Mike said, probably overkill.  The valve was tested with a old section of garden hose, not leaking, so I left it alone.

 

Mark92131

[jgerock]

The early fan motor should have a separate large plastic cap to help protect it from the elements.  Later motors (and Bosch replacements) only have a tiny cap (reused from the heater assembly) to protect the spindle.

 

The early cars used a round type mounting circlip - later cars use a flat type that won’t work with the early box/motor. Simply use a screwdriver to pop the clips off.

 

Here are 4 pictures of my 69 heater assembly. I used CRC Electric motor spray cleaner and a brass brush to clean the motor. Note the close proximity of the 2 electrical connectors.

[jgerock]

Here are pics of the heater assembly in my 73tii. Note the tiny plastic cover which snaps onto the replacement Bosch fan motor (before the motor goes into the top heater box piece).  Late/early fan motors are different diameters, so if you want to use a later fan motor, also use the later box top.

[James Laray]

@jgerock Very helpful.   Question.  Can you bench test the early motor with it out of the housing by holding the motor in your hand and then connecting to a 12v battery?    I want to make sure it doesn't jump out of my hand, or somehow shock me.     

[Mike Self]

27 minutes ago, James Laray said:

Can you bench test the early motor with it out of the housing by holding the motor in your hand and then connecting to a 12v battery?    I want to make sure it doesn't jump out of my hand, or somehow shock me.     

Yep, that's how I test mine.  You're not gonna get shocked by 12 volts; you're more likely to get your fingers dinged by the fan!  Just hold it firmly; it generates quite a bit of torque when you first energize it. One more caveat:

 

Before reinstalling the heater in the car, run the motor while moving the temperature control lever.  It has two cables that work in opposition:  as one cable opens the heater valve to increase warmth, the other cable gradually closes the "heat mixer door", a flap in the inlet section of the heater.  If the motor (or the fan) is slightly mis-positioned, the fan can hit the mixer door and cause a very annoying dinging sound,  It can do this with the fan running, or even free-wheeling (motor off, moving down the road at speed).  Now's the time to make sure it doesn't happen (ask me how I learned this bit of information!)

 

mike

 

PS--if your motor isn't working, PM me for the column I wrote on resurrecting a sick blower motor.

[jgerock]

2 hours ago, James Laray said:

@jgerock Very helpful.   Question.  Can you bench test the early motor with it out of the housing by holding the motor in your hand and then connecting to a 12v battery?    I want to make sure it doesn't jump out of my hand, or somehow shock me.     

Yes- I did this exact test. Just used a good spare battery and some jumper wires. Hold the fan housing securely.

[James Laray]

Pulled the fan unit out of the box.   It is identical to a fan unit I pulled from a spare box I had sitting around from a 71 or newer model.    Appears to be a newer style even though this is an untouched box from a summer 69 car.  That's odd.  It does not look like the unit @jgerock shared in the previous post from his 69 build. 

 

Regardless,

 

I cleaned up the armature surfaces with electric motor cleaner and applied Wurth HHS-K light grease to the shaft as it exits the housing by the fan.  It rotates but there is drag.  

 

This is my question.  How much drag is expected where the opposing magnets rest on the armature?  Should it spin freely or is there slight contact between the magnets and armature tight enough to expect some slight drag?  I don't want to bench test it only to burn it out by accident.

 

Do I need to see if I can some Wurth at the top of the shaft above the armature?   I don't want to run the risk of getting grease on the armature surface if at all possible.   

 

On the second spare motor that sat out in a parts car in the elements for years, I thought the shaft was moving with the armature but noted the fan was rotating, but not the armature.  Is stuck.   

Edited August 25, 2023 by James Laray

[Mark92131]

1 hour ago, James Laray said:

It rotates but there is drag. 

 

Try getting some penetrating oil on the shaft were it exits the back of the motor.  It should spin pretty freely and not bind if possible.  The fan blades should spin almost a full rotation with the flick of a finger.  If you can get it free and spinning, put some power to it.  It is either going to work or it's not.  I've had fan motors with a slight bind, overcome the resistance with some help under power, by carefully spinning the fan to get it started.  I needed to keep lubing the shaft until it would spin on it's own under power.

 

Good luck,

 

Mark92131

[James Laray]

@Mark92131

 

Welp, looks like I will pursue your approach    "Auto Dynamik fix to purchase a Porsche Fan, Bosch, part # 0 130 007 002 for around $60 and the $6 Granger plastic computer fan, part # 5JLL6 and drilled it 15/64 for a press on fit."

 

Where can  I source one?  

 

I see Turner sells the complete unit with fan for around $400.  Being frugal I will follow Mark's solution with the plastic computer fan.   

 

This heater core blower unit removal and rebuild is turning into one of the most challenging operations I've tackled on the 2002.    I've done pretty much everything on the car give or take over the decades too excluding head, transmission, and rear end rebuilds.

 

I can only image what a shop would charge to do it (if you could even find a shop to do it correctly)   

 

Edited August 27, 2023 by James Laray

[John_in_VA]

James, are you aware of https://prdesignsf.com/shop?olsPage=products?

Edited August 27, 2023 by John_in_VA