G245 Swap - Feels lke transmission engaged when in neutral

[kine8282]

 

 

 

Aloha all! I just just got back my newly rebuilt M10 motor for my 72 Roundie so I figured it would be a good time to mate up the 5 speed Getrag 245. I've changed the seals on the tranny but I didn't take it apart, just changed the seals to avoid common leak issues. Running a brand new lightened 228  flywheel with new clutch and right sized TO bearing. Bench test shows all gears and reverse engaged. Running new clutch MC, new clutch slave and braided line. Clutch as been bled.

 

Problem is that when the tranny is neutral the transmission lets me go to 3rd and 4th great but doesn't let me go to others, the rear wheels will not move but I can turn the motor, tranny and the drive shaft from the crank pulley. When I push the clutch in I can engage all gears and can turn the rear wheels. That isn't normal right? I installed a LSD earlier this year so I know its a little harder to turn the rear wheel but it feels like the car is still in gear when it is supposed to be in neutral.

 

I checked the shift linkages and no issues, running an AKG chassis mounted short shifter and there is no binding or issues what so ever. Any ideas on what else to check or inspect?

 

The car isn't running yet, still need to plumb in the DCOE's and rad and hoses but it's getting there, just need to address this issue first.

 

 

 

 

 

[tech71]

Seems oddly familiar, I suspect the problems lay with that shifter. You may be able to adjust it a bit but dont expect it to ever feel the same as the old stock set up.

 

[kine8282]

2 hours ago, tech71 said:

Seems oddly familiar, I suspect the problems lay with that shifter. You may be able to adjust it a bit but dont expect it to ever feel the same as the old stock set up.

 

Here is a video of my shifting through all the gears and the shifter seems fine. BUT this is with the clutch pulled in. I can play with it a little more so thanks for the input.

 

Anyone else have any ideas?

Edited November 3, 2022 by kine8282

[Lorin]

Are you saying that with the engine off you cannot move the shift lever to all the gears with the clutch engaged?

 

And with the engine off when you disengage the clutch you can engage all the gears with the shift lever ? 
 

If so, that sounds fine to me. 
 

 

Edit: reread the post. With the shifter in neutral the engine should be disconnected from the driveshaft no matter what. 
 

 

 

. 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Lorin

[kine8282]

@Lorin Thanks for your help.  Do you know if a new clutch assembly with a new flywheel etc are always “tight” like this until you run the motor and let it “set”?

[Lorin]

8 hours ago, kine8282 said:

@Lorin Thanks for your help.  Do you know if a new clutch assembly with a new flywheel etc are always “tight” like this until you run the motor and let it “set”?

The clutch has nothing to do neutral. 
 

The clutch when disengaged disconnects the engine from the input shaft of the transmission. 
 

Neutral disconnects the input shaft from the output shaft inside the transmission. 

[kine8282]

Ive been testing the shifts to confirm that I’m in the right gear and now I’m able to dry shift into gear without putting the clutch in. Maybe the new oil in the tranny

 

 

is lubricating the internals? Still can’t move the bloody tires unless the clutch is in. Here is a video from under the car. I know the angle is a bit off can anyone tell me if I’m in neutral when I wiggle the shifter? There seems to be alot of play between the shifter pivot and the selector rod but I recalled that my old 4 speed had a similar feeling. Should it be tighter?

 

I need to tighten up the tranny mount since it’s moving the tranny too much when I shift into R or 5th. 
 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by kine8282

[2002iii]

You've got the shift linkage at a very steep angle, it should be almost parallel with the driveshaft. I think that's where your problem is.

 

I believe AKG recommends using there polyurethane motor and transmission mounts with the chassis mount shifter 

[Lorin]

^ I agree 100%. 
 

Floor mounted shifters and street 2002s do not mix well in my opinion. The firmness of engine and transmission mounts required are not a pleasant change. 
 

If you are committed to using the floor shifter you will need solid or near solid engine and transmission mounts and you need to get the shift shaft much closer to in line with the shift shaft in the gear box to get decent results as 2002iii mentioned. 

[kine8282]

Thanks for the advice @Lorin and @2002iii I’ll see if I can line it up closer together today. I have poly engine mounts and rocking a a E21 tranny bushing. I’m going to see if I can shim up the rear end of the tranny a little higher and see if that works better. Atleast I now have a lead the chase. 

[TobyB]

there is a problem inside the transmission

if the rear wheels do not turn freely in neutral.

 

The 245 has a bad habit of shifting itself into reverse if it's set on its end

or even bumped hard (like, 5g's) on the end while it's out of the car.

 

Byron has posted the fix, ages ago- you reverse the process by intentionally

'dropping' it on end the other way.  I THINK it's on the bell, but I forget.

 

I have also found that the 5th gear detent can jam when it's out of the car.

It's not too hard to take it apart (carefully, as that spring is STRONG) and then

realign the detent plunger.

 

There should be almost no friction in a manual transmission when it's turned

slowly, either in neutral or in any gear.  Likewise, a LSD should have no

friction in any mode other than trying to turn one wheel while holding the

other one fixed- in which case, it should take real force to turn one wheel.

 

t

 

[kine8282]

Thanks for everyone’s help I think I’ve fixed the issue by straightening the linkages of the AKG chassis mounted shifter so it’s more parallel to the selector rod by lifting the rear end of the tranny up with some fender washers. I had to also add a washer to the CSB to keep the DS aligned. The tranny now shifts smoothly and I can finally spin the DS by hand.  Thanks to @Lorin and @2002iii
 

Here is a vid. Question, is it normal for the tranny to move that much to the driver’s side when in 5th gear?

 

 

 

[Lorin]

I have a theory on the transmission movement. The shift lever is Way longer than stock under the pivot ball. When you move into the 5th gear gate you are rotating the shift shaft.
 

On a stock ish length (lower)  shifter lever the rotation occurs without a lot of side to side swing. With your long (lower) length shift lever you are getting a Lot more side to side swing before the required rotation is achieved on the shaft. I believe there is so much side to side movement that the front connection to the transmission shift shaft is running out of articulation and when that happens the shift lever is pushing the entire transmission to the side via the shift shaft. 
 

Maybe.

 

Not a good situation if that is the cause. 

[72MetallicMalaga]

On 11/6/2022 at 7:47 AM, kine8282 said:

Thanks for everyone’s help I think I’ve fixed the issue by straightening the linkages of the AKG chassis mounted shifter so it’s more parallel to the selector rod by lifting the rear end of the tranny up with some fender washers. I had to also add a washer to the CSB to keep the DS aligned. The tranny now shifts smoothly and I can finally spin the DS by hand.  Thanks to @Lorin and @2002iii
 

Here is a vid. Question, is it normal for the tranny to move that much to the driver’s side when in 5th gear?

 

 

IMG_5230.MOV 534.21 MB · 14 downloads  

 

Kine, still no issues to this day?

 

I just installed mine, and the DSSR angles down like yours, and it doesn't shift into 5th all the way.

 

In addition, the shifter is off center from the tunnel, when I line up the selector rod and shifter. It sits to the right...a lot. 

 

I'm not sure how the tranny could be that off center...

 

 

 

Edited April 15 by 72MetallicMalaga