Alfas are Tempting

[AlfaBMWGuy]

In the area of southeastern WA I'm at, 2002s are rare--I've seen 2 others in the past 3 years.  But, Alfa Giulias are even more rare.  I've never seen another in this area in decades that I can remember.  I don't even know of any that are in Spokane, the biggest city on this side of the state.  Of course, if you venture to the Seattle or Portland metropolises, there are a decent number running around (but of course, a lot more 2002s).

 

The AlfaBB message board is a good community, just like this FAQ.  It's not as focused as here since it's for all Alfas (primarily the vintage ones), but lots of good people.  It's how I made the acquaintance of the fellow who found me my Giulia in Belgium and how I met the guy who had the unused Solexes that he wouldn't even let me pay the shipping on.

 

Bonus pic of Alfa with Campagnolo alloys I bought from another AlfaBB user out of The Netherlands a few years ago:

Edited September 27, 2021 by AlfaBMWGuy

[Milo]

 =

Edited March 13, 2022 by Vladimir

[golf73]

This topic should have been posted in the Off-Topic forum, but what the heck!

 

The best value in a classic Alfa sedan would have to be the uncommon Berlina with the even rarer Alfetta Sport Sedan close behind, if the more modern styling piques your interest

Edited September 28, 2021 by golf73

[fastricky]

Why Alfa didn't release the 4C with a stick sticks in my craw as that was a car I would own if it was available. 

[joebarthlow]

I will traded my well running '74 2002 for a '66-'67 Alfa Romero Duetto

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by joebarthlow

[AlfaBMWGuy]

14 hours ago, golf73 said:

The best value in a classic Alfa sedan would have to be the uncommon Berlina with the even rarer Alfetta Sport Sedan close behind, if the more modern styling piques your interest

 

 

From my many years of owning older BMWs and Alfas, I think of the Berlina as quite a different model than the earlier Giulia.  This is proven by how unloved the Berlinas is from enthusiasts because of the driving experience not being nearly as fun as the Giulia.  Conceptually, the Berlina is the exact analog of the BMW NK sedans while the Giulia is what a BMW 2002 is if it was made just minimally big enough for 4 doors, but without adding any weight. While the BMW NK sedans look just like a 4-door 2002, they are in a different size and weight class making them not as much fun to drive (although I certainly wouldn't turn down any of the original twin carb variants).  It's the same with the Berlina relative to the Giulia.  Berlinas can be great buys though if you are looking for more of a touring car rather than a corner carver.

 

As far as the Alfetta Sport Sedan, the drawbacks there (leading to little enthusiast interest) are the balkiness of the remote shifter due to the transaxle and the cost-cutting Alfa was employing at that point regarding interior materials and lower quality steel where most have rusted away.  Other than the shifter though, it was actually more of a return to the character of the Giulia in terms of the driving experience.  While they are styled very much like the BMW E12 5-series, they are closer to an E21 3-series in size and weight, had there had been a 4-door variation of that.

 

You discovered that Berlinas also come in Prugna.  So do Alfettas:

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by AlfaBMWGuy

[maharaja]

One and done with an AR Step. Cheesy build quality and components, non standardization of OEM suppliers, live axle, non rebuildable steering boxes, weird ergonomics and you better find a mechanic and make him a family friend.

Nice to look at but I’ll stick with BMW and Porsche.

There, I said it

[AlfaBMWGuy]

15 minutes ago, maharaja said:

One and done with an AR Step. Cheesy build quality and components, non standardization of OEM suppliers, live axle, non rebuildable steering boxes, weird ergonomics and you better find a mechanic and make him a family friend.

Nice to look at but I’ll stick with BMW and Porsche.

There, I said it

Yeah, I'd disagree with most of that for the Giulia sedans at least until the facelift that came in 1974 where they adopted some of the Alfetta build characteristics.  Build quality is near BMW 2002 level in my Giulia Super, but it wasn't as good in my '74 GTV and definitely not for an Alfetta.  Component quality was also very good in the Giulia Supers.  Yes, it's a live axle, but the handling is on par with a 2002 because Alfa refined that layout well beyond other manufacturers.  Ergonomics of my Giulia Super are also very close to 2002 levels.  For a GTV, the ergonomics are lacking and I can't speak to a Spider.  For your losing an independent rear suspension you gain an all-alloy DOHC engine (typically with dual side draft carbs depending on the model) and a standard 5-speed.  That's more than a fair tradeoff in my opinion.  Steering on my Giulia Super is actually a bit lighter with less free play than the 4 2002s I've owned over the years.  Finally, I've had no more reliability issues with my Alfas than my older BMWs.  You just have to be lucky enough to find one that hasn't been too neglected or abused over the decades, same story as a similar vintage BMW.

Edited September 29, 2021 by AlfaBMWGuy

[golf73]

On 9/27/2021 at 11:49 AM, bluehills2002 said:

It’s more than a neat color it’s the best color!  (See my ‘74).  Tom

 

Are those widened 1st Gen VW Rabbit/Scirocco wheels

 

[bluehills2002]

No I think the shadows in the photo makes them look widened.  they are CMRs (formerly Borrani?).  Tom

 

[golf73]

2 hours ago, bluehills2002 said:

No I think the shadows in the photo makes them look widened.  they are CMRs (formerly Borrani?).  Tom

 

 

Nope, they are not CMR/Borrani's - Unless that is the company that made wheels for VW in the mid 70's? I don't know. They have the appearance of the E21 steel wheels, with a different offset than the 2002, if you've ever seen that. I don't know the bolt pattern for Mk1 Golf/Scirocco etc. but that's what they look like. and, yes, widened or offset from stock.

Edited September 29, 2021 by golf73

[AlfaBMWGuy]

I want to make a couple other comments regarding the post above disparaging Alfas compared to BMWs.  The comment about Alfa not standardizing OEM suppliers is a valid one.  If you own an Alfa, you need to have a personality that fits better with how things work in Italy.  The situation with car production is much more fluid--there are labor strikes and other weird dynamics that lead to unpredictability.  If you can't flow with that and say "I wonder who supplied this part this week when my car came off the production line" with a relaxed attitude, then probably an Alfa is not for you.

 

Second, if I was buying one of these as a new daily driver car for myself, which means it would be 1971 instead of 2021, an entire 50 year difference, then I'd look at it differently.  Then I'd opt for the car that is less risky regarding reliability, parts supply, etc.  Now though the equation is completely different.  These cars are bought for enjoyment rather than being depended on for day-in and day-out transportation.  Therefore I'm willing to take on some of the extra risk in order to get the benefit of just how special an Alfa is in terms of the driving experience and styling, both of which are are direct manifestations of the passion from the people who created them.  The Alfas from that period just have more character and soul than most other brands.  Of course, if you don't appreciate that character, that's another reason to stay away.

 

Third, I differentiate a lot between the Alfa sedans (specifically what are called the 105 series Giulia sedans) and the other Alfas of the period, the Bertone coupes and the Pininfarina convertibles.  In the Alfa world back in the 1960's into the early 1970's, the sedans were products of the factory rather than design houses as with the others.  The sedans are just designed and built to be more solid cars.  But, they are still the same platform as the more sporty looking variants and therefore handle and perform superbly.  That's the rationale behind the adage "true Alfisti drive sedans".

 

Lastly and related to my last point, I couldn't decode the first "One and done with an AR step" in the post above.  I think it might mean he bought a 105 series Alfa Romeo step-nose Sprint GT, but didn't like the experience for the reasons cited, and has vowed not to buy another.  If so, I think it being a Bertone coupe might explain some of what was experienced (I suspect the condition of the specific car might be another reason--people don't usually complain about how dreadful concours show cars are).  My own '74 GTV was not the greatest ownership experience, both because of it being the coupe and the specific example.  But, I could feel the underlying goodness in the brand from that time period and had figured out by then that the sedans were the better match for me coming from the BMW 2002 and E30 world.  I love the differences and similarities between the BMWs and Alfas I've owned and thus I'll continue to be both an Alfa and BMW guy.

 

-Gary