Help needed - confirming this is an original nose panel

[D.martijn]

Hey guys,

 

After getting NOS front fenders for my 2002 Touring, and fitting them together with the old reproduction nose we got with the car.

The nose seems to sit to far back (pressed against the flanges of the inner fenders) Door gap at the B pillar is good (3-4mm), gap at the back of the fender and door is also good.

The fenders stick out a little from the nose panel (where the seam originally got leaded)

 

I now sourced  (what the sellers lists as) an original nose panel. However, before driving and paying, I would like to show you guys a couple pictures I received to confirm this is indeed an original BMS nose panel.

 

thanks! 

 

 

 

 

(my nose panel came with some adittional bracing pieces between the top and bottom sections where the grill sit, did the original panels also have this?)

 

also shown here

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike Self]

The fact that your project car needed fenders and a nose panel indicates that there may have been a front end "tap" in its previous history...

 

That Inka nose that you pictured sure looks original--it's unlikely that an aftermarket one fitted to a car would have the exact "schutz" line across the width of the nose, and the same pebbly finish applied as the factory--that nose looks factory.  And those "additional braces" that you mention are kinda important--they're the support for the hood hinges; without 'em you have no place to fasten the hood.   That's also where the horns are bolted.

 

You might also look on the panel that bridges the radiator support piece and the nose skin; on most cars I've seen with their original noses, there's a number stamped in the metal.  It's not a part number as it's only 3 or 4 digits.  Final check:  most factory replacement sheet metal was shipped with black primer next to the metal.  If that nose was originally fitted to a car in production, it will have two layers of grey primer, one with a kind of greenish cast.   

 

mike

[TobyB]

This is one of those things-

 

I can tell you it DOESN'T look like it ISN'T a factory panel cut off an original car.

All the details I can see look right for an original nose. There are a couple of 

details I can't see in the (otherwise excellent) pictures, but they aren't dealbreakers.

I'd give it a 99.7% chance of being the real thing.

 

That said, ALL panels take real fitting to get the car perfect, because they weren't 

perfect when they rolled out of the factory.  There was some variation day to day,

and more variation from die set to die set in stamping.  Then there was the way Fritz 

fit the panels vs. how Hans fit the panels, and how Helga welded before lunch and >>hic<< after.

 

And that's built into the design of the shell- there are places you can hide all these tolerances,

mostly under the hood overhang.

 

t

[Slavs]

Don't just focus on the nose panels. BMW's new sheet metal parts such as its fenders don't align and fit as well as the fenders they made back in the day. And, they are asking astronomical prices for their new parts which in many cases are substandard and simply don't fit. I sold a pair of BMW replacement fenders for dirt cheap and repaired my old ones because they fit better, warning the buyer.  I also bought the older style trailing arm bushings as used with the long neck sub frames, and they are 1mm-2mm too small in diameter. Probably better to repair older sheet metal whenever possible. Some of the aftermarket sheet metal was decent, perhaps just as good, if not better than BMW's new replacement parts.

 

That nose panel appears original. The drain holes along with that textured protective finish at the bottom sure look original.

Edited August 14, 2020 by Slavs

[D.martijn]

23 hours ago, Mike Self said:

The fact that your project car needed fenders and a nose panel indicates that there may have been a front end "tap" in its previous history...

 

That Inka nose that you pictured sure looks original--it's unlikely that an aftermarket one fitted to a car would have the exact "schutz" line across the width of the nose, and the same pebbly finish applied as the factory--that nose looks factory.  And those "additional braces" that you mention are kinda important--they're the support for the hood hinges; without 'em you have no place to fasten the hood.   That's also where the horns are bolted.

 

You might also look on the panel that bridges the radiator support piece and the nose skin; on most cars I've seen with their original noses, there's a number stamped in the metal.  It's not a part number as it's only 3 or 4 digits.  Final check:  most factory replacement sheet metal was shipped with black primer next to the metal.  If that nose was originally fitted to a car in production, it will have two layers of grey primer, one with a kind of greenish cast.   

 

mike

 

Yes, it did have an accident in the past. But we were able to straighten everything out. 

Going of from the Schutz I also assumed it probably is original.

About the braces, I was talking about these sections, on the pictures you can also see these in place on my old reproduction nose.

I didn't know original noses also had these.

 

 

 

22 hours ago, TobyB said:

This is one of those things-

 

I can tell you it DOESN'T look like it ISN'T a factory panel cut off an original car.

All the details I can see look right for an original nose. There are a couple of 

details I can't see in the (otherwise excellent) pictures, but they aren't dealbreakers.

I'd give it a 99.7% chance of being the real thing.

 

That said, ALL panels take real fitting to get the car perfect, because they weren't 

perfect when they rolled out of the factory.  There was some variation day to day,

and more variation from die set to die set in stamping.  Then there was the way Fritz 

fit the panels vs. how Hans fit the panels, and how Helga welded before lunch and >>hic<< after.

 

And that's built into the design of the shell- there are places you can hide all these tolerances,

mostly under the hood overhang.

 

t

 

(problem with this nose is that it's seems like it's too short (at the corners where the fenders are welded to it)

And there is 5mm gap between the lower support in the middle and the underside of the frame rails where they are welded to each other. I'm not sure how to correct this, without having to remove this support and weld it up higher.

 

21 hours ago, Slavs said:

Don't just focus on the nose panels. BMW's new sheet metal parts such as its fenders don't align and fit as well as the fenders they made back in the day. And, they are asking astronomical prices for their new parts which in many cases are substandard and simply don't fit. I sold a pair of BMW replacement fenders for dirt cheap and repaired my old ones because they fit better, warning the buyer.  I also bought the older style trailing arm bushings as used with the long neck sub frames, and they are 1mm-2mm too small in diameter. Probably better to repair older sheet metal whenever possible. Some of the aftermarket sheet metal was decent, perhaps just as good, if not better than BMW's new replacement parts.

 

That nose panel appears original. The drain holes along with that textured finish protective finish at the bottom sure look original.

 

The fenders I got are old stock pieces, brand new. They had an old BMW sticker on them, so they are still good quality 

[Conserv]

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. In the ‘70’s — I’ve been an ‘02 owner since 1973 — many of us complained about the poor quality and fit of factory replacement panels. Yes, you read that right: an OEM replacement fender manufactured in 1975 is not a guarantee of “excellent original fit”. At the same time, the quality of aftermarket fenders, available since the 1960’s, has varied greatly.

 

The varying quality of OEM replacement panels, specifically, those purchased from your local BMW dealer, is perhaps due to different suppliers, perhaps due to efforts to keep them affordable, perhaps due to efforts to sell them more profitably. And perhaps all of the above, and more! What I believe, however, is that the average quality of OEM replacement panels is measurably better than the average quality of aftermarket replacement panels. And that is why I would seek out OEM panels.
 

But we’ve been fussin’ to make OEM fenders fit correctly since the ‘02 was introduced in March 1966. At least some of the time!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[TobyB]

Quote

(problem with this nose is that it's seems like it's too short (at the corners where the fenders are welded to it)

And there is 5mm gap between the lower support in the middle and the underside of the frame rails where they are welded to each other. I'm not sure how to correct this, without having to remove this support and weld it up higher.

 

Too short?  As in, too narrow (not enough metal) or too low, as in sits too close to the ground?  I have found I've had to do all sorts

of things to that upper bar to get it to fit the car I was trying to attach it to.  Including reshaping it significantly.

 

And as to the lower gap,  now I see why you want to try another.  I think I would, too.  But if the second nose fits like the first,

I would then try to get it to fit with it sitting on the frame rails.  Only when that truly failed would I then shim it and move on.

Don't be afraid to modify the fenders- as Steve says, they've always been a fitment problem.  Even the factory had a whole 

book of tricks to get them to look 'good enough', a lot of which involved Franz putting a LOT of muscle into them.

 

I've never seen a film of how the nose of the shell was assembled- it'd be neat to see the order of assembly when they were built.

 

Good luck----this is one of the more critical- and stressful- parts of getting the whole front end to fit correctly. 

 

t

 

[D.martijn]

16 hours ago, TobyB said:

 

Too short?  As in, too narrow (not enough metal) or too low, as in sits too close to the ground?  I have found I've had to do all sorts

of things to that upper bar to get it to fit the car I was trying to attach it to.  Including reshaping it significantly.

 

 

I mean the section where the top of the fenders get welded /lead seamed onto the nose, sticks out significantly.

This is with the nose panel seated against the flange of the inner fenders. 

 

Thanks for the help so far guys!

[TobyB]

Push harder!!!!

 

heh,

 

t