Another Weber DCOE Post

['76mintgrün'02]

2 hours ago, Inka’d02 said:

My sticking dist. weight (which is what I thought was the issue with dist.) turned out not to be sticking.

 

Is the center post moving freely on the shaft?  Weights don't typically stick at their pivot points, but the post can develop friction that doesn't let it return, if it is not lubricated periodically.

 

 

Before you run out and buy a 123, may I ask a couple more distributor questions?

 

How deep into the distributor did you go?  Did you go in from the top, or drill the gear pin and pull the shaft out?

 

If that is indeed a NOS unit, I would not send it in for a rebuild.  There is some adjustment built into that early style distributor.  I'd try that first (next).

 

If you drill the pin and pull the shaft, you'll see that the tabs that the springs attach to are adjustable from the underside, by loosening the two screws and turning it.  That will put more or less pressure on the weights' lobes and alter the curve using the original weights and springs.  No new parts needed.

The screws that hold that piece on have little tiny wave washers underneath that will allow you to put enough tension on them to stay put, but still reach down and move them to make adjustments and test the results with your variable timing light.  Then when you get it right, you can tighten it back down.  Or, you can set it tight and try it; rinse/repeat, until satisfied.

 

It'll be a little tedious, but it'll be fun too.  You'll have a much better understanding of (than just sending it off) and if you use a roll pin in place of the solid pin, it will be easy for you to get back in to perform the routine maintenance that will keep it working smoothly for years to come.

 

NOS distributor.... mmmmmm.  Please post a photo or two, if you dig into it.

 

Tom

[2002Scoob]

44 minutes ago, Inka’d02 said:

 

I am doing all of my adjustments with the car plenty warmed up. Driven for 20 or so minutes then sync'd and adjusted. 

 

Start of this post explains the idle issue:

 

"When I let off the throttle it comes down to 1500 RPM and it then takes 20 to 30 seconds to slowly creep down to 1050 or so." 

 

 

 

Ohhhhh. So you're better setup, but still having the original issue, then. 

 

Hmmmmh. Well you've at least eliminated all other possibilities. 

 

That's an odd one. Can you re-create it with the car sitting still? 

 

As in- if you're standing outside the car, and manually blip or rev the throttle, does it still idle high, and slowly drop as you describe? 

 

What if, after you manually rev, you also manually pull on the linkage to close the butterflies? What if you do the same and remove the linkage from the pedal to the carbs?  

 

I'm just wondering if there isn't something somewhere binding or sticking... and if it is something sticking and you break the chain between the carbs and the pedal, you could look to either side of the break for what's sticky. 

 

Just spit-ballin'. 

[Hans]

Just a thought. What if you do as suggested above but put the ti ming light on it to see if it drops back to idle advance. I'm getting about 10 at 800 or so, 33 all in.

[Inka’d02]

5 minutes ago, Hans said:

Just a thought. What if you do as suggested above but put the ti ming light on it to see if it drops back to idle advance. I'm getting about 10 at 800 or so, 33 all in.

15 degree at 1000 Rpm. 33 all in as well The Linkage is not binding.

[Inka’d02]

59 minutes ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

 

Is the center post moving freely on the shaft?  Weights don't typically stick at their pivot points, but the post can develop friction that doesn't let it return, if it is not lubricated periodically.

 

 

Before you run out and buy a 123, may I ask a couple more distributor questions?

 

How deep into the distributor did you go?  Did you go in from the top, or drill the gear pin and pull the shaft out?

 

If that is indeed a NOS unit, I would not send it in for a rebuild.  There is some adjustment built into that early style distributor.  I'd try that first (next).

 

If you drill the pin and pull the shaft, you'll see that the tabs that the springs attach to are adjustable from the underside, by loosening the two screws and turning it.  That will put more or less pressure on the weights' lobes and alter the curve using the original weights and springs.  No new parts needed.

The screws that hold that piece on have little tiny wave washers underneath that will allow you to put enough tension on them to stay put, but still reach down and move them to make adjustments and test the results with your variable timing light.  Then when you get it right, you can tighten it back down.  Or, you can set it tight and try it; rinse/repeat, until satisfied.

 

It'll be a little tedious, but it'll be fun too.  You'll have a much better understanding of (than just sending it off) and if you use a roll pin in place of the solid pin, it will be easy for you to get back in to perform the routine maintenance that will keep it working smoothly for years to come.

 

NOS distributor.... mmmmmm.  Please post a photo or two, if you dig into it.

 

Tom

Thanks Tom. Like I said everything moves freely. It is basically brand new. When I am saying recurve, I am more say custom curve, that is why I am leaning towards a 123.

[uai]

1 hour ago, Inka’d02 said:

Ok, that will require sending it out for re-curve?

I'd try setting it on 10° BTDC and see how idle is before doing anything. If Idle is ok then then I'd see further

[Inka’d02]

4 hours ago, uai said:

I'd try setting it on 10° BTDC and see how idle is before doing anything. If Idle is ok then then I'd see further

Okay to have that 10 degrees at 1000 RPM?

[uai]

14 minutes ago, Inka’d02 said:

Okay to have that 10 degrees at 1000 RPM?

Yup

 

[Inka’d02]

On 7/13/2020 at 5:07 PM, uai said:

Yup

 

No Dice. At 10 degree advance at 1000. I still get 1500 when I left off then slowly creeping down to 1000 and then falling off even more to 600. Engine starts to rock at 800. I have the carbs perfectly syncd and the linkage is hard stopping against the idle screw. As soon as I let off, no bind.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Inka’d02

['76mintgrün'02]

The distributor in the video has the late style body.  Did you switch to a 0231188002 distributor? 

 

The 0231151008 is the early style, with a squared off bottom edge on the body and does not have those little dents stamped in the walls (to mount the points plate).

 

The one in the video should have the late style weights and springs inside.     Now I'm confyoozed. 

 

 

It sure looks nice.  Sounds good too!  

Tom

 

['76mintgrün'02]

Okay.  I apologize.  I was confusing this thread with drola's 40 DCOE Jetting thread, in which he's using the #008 distributor.

 

When you say NOS Tii, you must mean the 002, because all Tii distributors were the old style.  The 002 curve is a little different, but it was sold as a replacement for the Tii.

 

 

You said you are using a Pertronix and there have been some threads about fitting those to the 002 being problematic at times.

 

My car came with an 002 installed and I ran a Pertronix for a bit.  I called the company to ask which model Pertronix to use and they steered me towards one from a four cylinder Volvo marine engine.  Not the common 1847V.  On mine, there was a problem with the rotor being misaligned with the cap when it fired and there were arc marks on just one side of the cap's copper 'contacts'.  I've seen others with the same problem, but Tom-too (visionaut) sent me photos of his cap and it looked normal.

 

 

 

Another problem people have had with the Pertronix in the 002 distributor has to do with the magnetic ring not fitting down far enough onto the center post and it holds the rotor up too high, so that it rubs on the underside of the cap; with the graphite button pushed all the way up in.  That will leave visible evidence on top of the rotor.  If you do have that problem, it is easy to fix, by grinding about a tenth of an inch off of the bottom of the rotor. 

 

I wonder if there could be enough friction there to not let the advance return.

 

Did you try watching the timing marks with the light as Byron suggested, to see if the advance is still dropping as the idle decreases?

 

 

[Chris_B]

5 hours ago, Inka’d02 said:

No Dice. At 10 degree advance at 1000. I still get 1500 when I left off then slowly creeping down to 1000 and then falling off even more to 600. Engine starts to rock at 800. I have the carbs perfectly syncd and the linkage is hard stopping against the idle screw. As soon as I let off, no bind.

 

What happens if you set the min idle speed for around 950 RPMs? When you say “perfectly synced,” that includes barrel to barrel, same carb? At what RPMs did you  synch the carbs? 

[uai]

3 hours ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

I wonder if there could be enough friction there to not let the advance return.

wouldn't it help to return if there was friction?

[Inka’d02]

Guys, 

 

I really appreciate the help but I feel like I am spinning my wheels here. 

 

1. The linkage is returning to the idle position (against the stop screw when you release the throttle) repeatably every time. Let me add, in conjunction with the return springs in each carb, I have one pulling the linkage to home position.

 

2. The advance works fine, I set the idle advance to the suggested position of 10 DEGREE ADVANCE AT 1000 RPM.

 

3. Carbs are synced perfectly carb to carb and barrel to barrel. (checked at idle and at higher RPM done with the engine hot).

 

I can not get it to idle right, the problem when I let off it drops to 1500 then slowly falls to 1000-1050 (holds for a few seconds) then continues to fall to 600 and holds. Engine rock starts around 800, which I guess could be associated with the 292. I checked the synchronization at 600 rpm as well, still perfect even though shes rocking. 

 

I also tried a couple of different idle jet sizes last night, 45F9, 45F8, 50F9, 55F9, no luck just different idle mixtures needed as to be expected.

 

Maybe I can add one more piece of info that might help. If I set the idle such that it initially falls to anything over 1500, say 1600, it does not continue to fall, it just stays at 1600.

 

At the end of the day I just need the car to back to idle faster, not pause at 1500 and take time to drop. And second I need it to not continue to fall after it hits 1000/1050 RPM.

 

 

Thanks again everyone.

Andy

 

[uai]

What you describe is the symptom if advance starts before 1000 RPM.

Advance should be static 10° and not variable before 1000 RPM.

I do this by preloading the first spring in the dizzy