Another driveshaft question...

[punchsponge]

Okay, from reading old posts I've resigned myself to the fact that trying to change the u-joints is a bad decision and a good driveshaft assembly can be had from Ireland Engineering for $500. Also, the $470 Dorman version off Ebay has worked for some people.  But what about this cheaper option from www.wholesaleimportparts.com?  Has anyone had any luck with these?

 

https://www.wholesaleimportparts.com/BMW_2002-2002ti_Driveshaft_1974.php

 

 

[KFunk]

Hey, you're in Chillicothe?  I'm over near Athens.  Are you Garret, Jacob, or someone completely new?

 

Your cheaper bet is finding a decent used one.  Post a wanted ad or ask around on the 2002 classified groups on FB, and you might get lucky. 

 

If you need a core for free or to play around with, I've got one you can have for free.  The u-joints are really shot on it though.

 

If you're tempted to upgrade to a 5-speed anytime soon, then you might save your money for when its time for that, since it will require doing it all over again.  I've got a 5-speed, and just got a driveshaft from Dave Varco (Aardvarc racing).  Come to think of it, it might be worth emailing Dave to see if he has a decent 4-speed driveshaft sitting around or can get one rebuilt cheap, since he seems to have the hook-ups for that sort of thing.

 

 

[punchsponge]

Thank you Mr. Funk: Lot to process there.  I'm someone completely new.  My name is John and my family has been into old cars and racing motorcycles for a long time, but this is my first 2002 - the infamous Turkis from the Volunteers of America auction a couple of months back.  Of my present u-joints, one is perfect and one has just a very slight hitch, but since a carrier bearing, flex coupling, center tie rod, struts and anti sway bar bushings are going in, I figured that now should probably be the time for a change.  I do have a lead on a salvage driveshaft - a friend of my brother's who is currently out of town, but will check u-joints upon his return and report back.  Buying a new one is the backup.  Right now, the car drives pretty nice as is, and since it has cleaned up nicely I am probably one of the few people on earth who's head is above water on a 2002 purchase.  For now...  Barely...  Would love to have the 5-speed and am aware of the need for a shortened driveshaft for that conversion, but I will probably wait a while on that or simply buy a different car down the road.  Really starting to like these 2002s...  Low RPM cruising above 70mph would be nice...  Buffering...  Better PM me a price on that. 

Best, JE

[KFunk]

Hi John,

 

No,  I don't have any 5-speeds for sale, they're hard to find around here.  Sorry if I was confusing on that.  I had to ship mine over from California.  It's not super necessary for a daily driver around town, but makes it a bit more comfortable on the highway.  Come to think of it, my extra driveshaft is one that has already been shortened way too much.    

Jacob (Johnson on the forum) is near you in Chillicothe I think, haven't talked to him in a year or two, and Garret is in Chillicothe and has his old 02.  One or both work at the Autozone there, or did, not sure.  I don't know if they have any parts laying around.  I think I gave Jacob my only decent stuff I had left over.

I'm not that familiar with your Turkis car's history, haven't kept up with forums much lately.  I have a '74 riviera with mildly built engine (292 cam, sidedraft Weber 40s, etc.), and used to autocross regularly but now just use it mostly for daily driving when roads aren't salty.  I bought mine for $700 back in '05 when I lived in Hawaii, drove it cross-country back to Athens, and I have gradually made it better over the years.  

[worzella]

Hi - 

 

I just struggled with making this decision over the summer, and although my research never turned up your link, I have two suggestions. The place I used was in Atlanta, GA and I had a great experience with them. The price was very good and they turned it around quickly. From the email snippet below you should be able to contact them. But be careful if you do a web search. There is another place with almost the same name on the other side of the city. I packed mine up, shipped it not too expensively and they sent it back in the same container. My price was actually a bit cheaper even since I already had the center bearing, dust cap and replacement joint bearings.

Reply-To: Dwayne Adams <drivelineserviceofnorthatlanta@yahoo.com>
 

YES, WE CAN REBUILD AND BALANCE THAT DRIVESHAFT. REPLACING THE CENTER-BEARING, RESTAKING 2 NEW JOINTS AND

BALANCING THAT 2 PC SHAFT RUNS RIGHT AT 385$.
THAT IS YOU BRINGING ME THE DRIVESHAFT, IF BRINGING THE VEHICLE IT IS 125 MORE TO R&R THAT SHAFT.

IF BRINGING SHAFT, NORMALLY TAKES 4-6 HOURS, IF BRING VEHICLE NORMALLY TAKES BETTER PART OF THE DAY TO TWO DAYS, AND WOULD NEED AN APPOINTMENT IF BRINGING VEHICLE

The other place is in Portland and I think called Driveline of Portland or something like that. Depends on where you live as far as shipping mainly. I am in Raleigh. But consider that MOST of these places want your core to rebuild or as a trade-in, so shipping is kind of a moot point since you will have to ship something most likely for anyone you use. 

 

As far as Ireland, I almost used them, but it was a bit pricier, however, they are top quality for everything else I have purchased from them. A very solid choice!

 

So as far as your link and Dorman, this gets down to the "doing it right" statement above. My understanding is that your link and these other "cheap" refurb places DO NOT stake in the new joints like they are intended to be done. Staking is installing the bearing and then using a special machine to cut grooves in the metal. The metal that piles up as the groove is cut down presses against the bearing and holds it in place. Just the way those Germans do it, for some reason.

 

What these other places most likely do is change the mount to a C/circlip method. So first they great the inner diameter to smooth out the existing stake lines and then use a machine to cut the groove that the C/circlip sits in. The problem is after you remove all of this steel from the grinding and cutting, you MAY have seriously weakened the joint area. How much truth there is in to the seriousness is probably debatable.... but... I would not want to save $100-200 on such an important part, not only just because of a failing part, but what that failing chunk of metal can do to your tranny, undercarriage and feet/ankles spinning at thousands of RPM

 

OK, that is my story and I am sticking with it

 

Randy 

 

PS - Also eat some noodles for dinner for a few weeks so you can buy new BMW bolts/nuts to re-attach your shaft to the diff and tranny flanges and also buy a quality guibo for the tranny mount. False economy to skimp on these items.

 

 

[TobyB]

You can run with a slight hitch for about... 13.7 years, give or take.  Flex it a lot,

just to make sure it's just a little click, then bolt it up and run it.

 

As long as the grease isn't leaking.

 

Then, if down the line, you start to get driveline vibes, there's your 5 speed motivation.

 

Perfect is nice, but perfect is not worth $500.

 

t

 

[Dudeland]

I just grabbed a U joint for my 5-speed conversion driveshaft in the hope that it may address a high pitched sound from coming out from underneath the car.   From what it sounds like it is a little more complicated than a Chevy U joint to get in. 

 

what do you mean by a "hitch", is it a vibration, or click or what?

 

Thanks 

 

 

 

[punchsponge]

Funny how all kinds of solid advice can be contradictory.  All greatly appreciated.  Dudeland, it is more of a minor click, and I think at present my plan will be to go with TobyB's 13.7 year plan, at least until I can find a good used one cheap, which may be next week, or much later.  By much later I mean about 12.5 years earlier than advised. Nevertheless, I hear Randy.  No fear of the ramen noodles here.  For my first decade after college they had bio-accumulated to the point of toxicity, but after another decade in South Korea I've gotten so that I like them again.  A lot.  Will keep those options in mind if I cannot find a used one. $4-500 isn't the end of the world for something you enjoy. KFunk, I should have read a lot closer.  I see that you autocross(ed) your car.  Yes!  That was my intention in the beginning, but my car is enough of a sold original that I cringe at the thought of making the modifications that are necessary.  Maybe next car.  I have heard legend of two other 02s in Chillicothe, both rusty, one awaiting rockers to be installed by a friend of my dad's.  Maybe these are the cars.  Also, there was a super-rough (but rad!) flat black roundie I saw buzzbombing around Chillicothe about three summers ago for a couple of months, but then it disappeared as quickly as it appeared.  Liked that car, a lot.  Not sure how or if it fits into the picture.  Will take a look around the forum and see if I can introduce myself to those guys.   

[jimk]

12 hours ago, Dudeland said:

just grabbed a U joint for my 5-speed conversion driveshaft in the hope that it may address a high pitched sound from coming out from underneath the car.

Are you following the rules of alignment for a double cardan joint arrangement that the 02 has?  Runs much smoother if correctly set up.  I'm not talking about the engine to driveshaft guibo alignment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_joint

[Harv]

Punchsponge, I might have a 4sp DS. I'll have to check the U Joints. I live in Willoughby so if you ever drive up north...

 

John

[KFunk]

John, there's no need to modify your car for trying out autocross at all.  Run it as she is and see if its any fun for you.  I've run my '65 Datsun pickup with OVR-SCCA just for the hell of it. 

My car is quite built, but there's not really even a good class for it anymore.  I haven't bothered being truly competitive in many years, and just see if I can have fun.  You can run with Buckeye Miata Club at the Circleville Raceway Park (go-kart track), or OVR-SCCA at National Trails in Hebron, or there are some Cincy groups, or I go to SWVR-SCCA in Parkersburg, WV or Charleston, WV sometimes.  

 

The flat black one in Chillicothe has a long history.  It's a 1602 that once belonged to Karl from Yellow Springs (a54atii) and it was a pale yellow he called maisgelb (not original) but once looked decent.  He sold it to an OU student, that drove it in winter and wouldn't really wave at me when I waved back in my 02.  Then that guy ran it into a pole in winter, and sold it to Jacob for cheap.  Jacob replaced the front clip and painted it flat black, and he went to OU for a bit.  I think I gave him my old 4-speed, some wheels from my miata, and I think he rebuilt the engine with a 2.0L and a head that I gave him and lots of parts from Karl.  It was pretty rusty and beat, though.  We lucked into finding a fading verona red 02 in a storage unit in Athens though.  I wasn't interested in another, but Jacob opted to sell the black one to his friend Garret that was still living in Chillicothe and paid like $500 for the mostly stock red one.  I don't know the status of either right now, but think Jacob moved back to Chillicothe and he got a Smart car too.  

[KFunk]

Also, my driveshaft on my shelf has a U-joint that won't even move entirely in one plane.  I mean I leave it hanging between 2 tiny shelf posts with nothing supporting it in the middle, and that bad u-joint can support the weight of the entire thing instead of flexing.  That damn thing was still running fine in the car for years, and just made a popping noise occasionally when parking.  You're probably fine with a slightly notchy joint.

[punchsponge]

KFunk, give me a few weeks and I bet I can update you on the status of those cars.  Yeah, I remember seeing that black one on Bridge Street and trying for three or four lights to weave my way through traffic to catch up to it.  Sure sounded good.  Mixed feelings about autocrossing the one I've got.  My brother teases me that good bodywork and a loathing for fiberglass repair can hurt my times on a motorcycle; no doubt I'd have the same problem with this car, especially since I'm going to go the route of functioning AC.  Have been in continued correspondence with the original owner and I think "preservation class driver" is its future.  Waaay more exciting to run the $#@&%ing dogshit out of a vehicle you can afford to break/crash/blow-up.  Just my different definition of fun.  I run little bikes with OMRL, so I'm familiar with what the Miata Club does to the crumbling remains of the asphalt in Circleville. Maybe I'll make my own small contribution to the effort this summer, either in the 2002 or something else.  

 

Harv, keep me posted on that driveshaft!  

[KFunk]

38 minutes ago, punchsponge said:

KFunk, give me a few weeks and I bet I can update you on the status of those cars.  Yeah, I remember seeing that black one on Bridge Street and trying for three or four lights to weave my way through traffic to catch up to it.  Sure sounded good.  Mixed feelings about autocrossing the one I've got.  My brother teases me that good bodywork and a loathing for fiberglass repair can hurt my times on a motorcycle; no doubt I'd have the same problem with this car, especially since I'm going to go the route of functioning AC.  Have been in continued correspondence with the original owner and I think "preservation class driver" is its future.  Waaay more exciting to run the $#@&%ing dogshit out of a vehicle you can afford to break/crash/blow-up.  Just my different definition of fun.  I run little bikes with OMRL, so I'm familiar with what the Miata Club does to the crumbling remains of the asphalt in Circleville. Maybe I'll make my own small contribution to the effort this summer, either in the 2002 or something else.  

 

Harv, keep me posted on that driveshaft!  

 

Ah, sweet, OMRL looks like a blast.  I watched one event, and wanted to get into it, but never got around to getting a decent bike for it and wouldn’t have time anyways. I have an 83 Yamaha rx50 street bike (same as ysr engine), and have gotten some parts from Bill Doran from it, not sure if he’s still around OMRL. I’m not sure if I like the setup there for BMC either, it’s just a tight fit. Glad they got a place to run, but they’ve ran in better places with more room to move before. I ran one event with my Miata there this fall, using my 02s race tires.  Just one last beating on it before cutting it up for parts.  I haven’t ran the 02 since it’s been repainted a couple years ago, but I should, and put the ceremonial first cone marks on it.  It’ll get more fun again then.

[punchsponge]

I believe he is commonly referred to as "The Great Bill Doran," but yeah, I think we are talking about the same guy.  Bill and I are both into Honda RS125 based roadracers and I know him mostly from Mid Ohio.  I've also got a little Alfa Spider and my brother drives a WRX, so hopefully I'll see you at an autocross of some sort this summer.  Something I need to try if I ever have a weekend off work where I am free from motorcycle races.  Not sure if that would actually be a good thing or a bad thing...