steering and suspension Camber Problems

[Cartorious]

I just purchased a 2002 and upon taking it in to Les Schwab, the people working there said that the rear left tire could not be re-aligned and must be re-built as something is "off" about the camber.

 

When posting this picture, I was told that the camber wasn't actually that far off, and there must be something else wrong with my car. Any suggestions?

 

The picture included is the printout of the information given to me by the people at Les Schwab. Hopefully it is enough information.

[jrkoupe]

not sure what you r asking..

your rear camber is not that OMG terrible......

is car at stock ride ht?

are all rear bushings orig?..how many miles?

was car ever hit ?

how does it track down road?..

the rear camber / toe/ etc is not adjustable as it comes from the factory.

are rear shock towers solid?....

are shocks in good shape?..

etc etc

Les Schwab?...bmw shop?..or is it a general mechanic shop in a box a la home depot?..

perhaps u can find a good bmw shop that knows 02s!!!

ahhh....just checked..its a Tire center?..,......get outta there....fast.

Edited July 9, 2014 by jrkoupe

[FB73tii]

Joel Jim--for context here is the original thread from the OP. While it started as a search for more power, the more important issue of making sure the brakes are in good shape came up. Apparently they are not and need to be addressed, as was discussed in the following thread:

 

Side Draft Intake Manifold Upgrade
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/155790-side-draft-intake-manifold-upgrade/

 

The relevant issues for this thread are:

1) The car pulls to one side under braking--this is the issue that needs attention and is unlikely related to the alignment settings

 

2) Les Schwab told the OP (Carter) that the left rear was seriously screwed up, or something like that, would affect braking, and that the OP should "not brake too hard" until it was fixed.

 

In my opinion this second statement by LS is total BS--if it was unsafe to brake hard (like in an emergency!) then the car should be taken off the road until fixed.I suggested Carter post the alignment specs here so people could review and comment on them.

 

As you and others suggest, the rear camber is fine for a 40 year old car with a lot of miles on it. In the other thread Toby provided a good list of all the bushings and suspension linkages that should be checked and replaced if worn out.

 

Carter--spend your first $1000 on making the car safe and getting the brakes and suspension up to spec. Then drive it for several months and see how fun it is--because it handles so well--even with roughly 100 HP.

 

Hope this helps--Fred

Edited July 9, 2014 by FB73tii

[jrkoupe]

Frank.....I think u called me Jim?.....so we are even now...lol

but now I get it..

Fred..its Joel.....cool

[FB73tii]

Joel--oops, sorry!    Fixed it above --Fred

[jrkoupe]

no sorries needed .....lol

[TobyB]

Oops, Joel, I think I've called you Jim in past, too.  My bad!

 

t

[Cyclone101]

Oops, Joel, I think I've called you Jim in past, too.  My bad!

 

t

 

Its ok Tony,

 

Jim and Frank don't mind.

 

Regards

Jon

[TobyB]

hee hee- touche!

 

t

[GoFaSSter]

I was really hoping to see some feedback on this one. I figured with all the racers in the board there would be a lot of experience with the alignment specs.

[Cyclone101]

I was really hoping to see some feedback on this one. I figured with all the racers in the board there would be a lot of experience with the alignment specs.

Not sure what you wanted to see.

Those camber figures will not affect braking stability. The front caster is a little low, but those rear toe settings are a little more worrisome.

But since there's no adjustment at the back, all you can do is replace the bushes and test again.

[Simeon]

Do the targets that the big box tyre place guys are shooting for bare any resemblance to figures in the blue book?

 

I sometimes wonder where they get the figures from for some of these generic service tools / machines / testing devices. 

[FB73tii]

I was really hoping to see some feedback on this one. I figured with all the racers in the board there would be a lot of experience with the alignment specs.

Same here--curious as to how stock 2002's with many miles come out on their specs. Are any still dead-on?

 

Likely the reason for lack comments from racers is that many have adjustable suspensions, and set them up based on what works on the track and what provides the best tire temperature profile for any given track and condition at the time. These setups have little to do with street driving. For example, my 2002 is set up with -2.9° camber in front on both sides (will be more when I install Lee's offset bump steer spacers) and about 1/16" toe-out. I used to run 1/8" toe-out for autocross as it really helps turn-in. The rear is also adjustable and currently -2.1° camber on both sides and close to zero toe (want just a hair toe-in for stability). My front caster is more than stock, but not adjustable (yet). As much as I try, I just cannot figure out how to set the rear caster .

[Cyclone101]

 As much as I try, I just cannot figure out how to set the rear caster .

 

This is how you set rear castor...

 

 

But it looks like fun in a parking lot!

[cj]

The best action is to check ride height left to right on the rear as ride height has a direct impact on camber. I would then inspect the control arm bushings and subframe bushings to ensure none are deteriorated or worn. A previous owner could have installed adjustable cams. If the subframe bushings look new, make sure they're installed with the proper side up.

If all looks good, I'd perform a manual check on the camber. This can easily be done with a square. A lot of these computer alignment machines are not calibrated on a consistent basis so your readings would be off.

I would be more concerned with the toe out of the rear tires. That much toe out would definitely indicate worn bushings or bent suspension components. The toe out is going to have a more immediate affect on your tire wear than camber but, with the amount of camber and toe out, tire wear on the inside edge will be magnified.