EPA will allow 15% ethanol in pump gas if Congress doesn&quo

[Mike Self]

act to ban it. This stuff isn't so good for our 2002s--carbureted or fuel injsected (10% is bad enough)--or other older cars for that matter. The web site below is from SEMA, who has spearheaded a bill in congress to prevent it. Write your congressperson--it's an election year.

Check out the information at this web site: (cut and paste)

http://echo.bluehornet.com/hostedemail/email.htm?CID=2419973035&ch=CCFAE57E9A182420D7F285A74BE49BB4&h=3055dfd11a60e4a7a3d82d242f1666f5&ei=DESB6pNNx

cheers

mike

[ndog]

where do they want to get the corn?????last i checked that source has dryed up

[nbristow01]

Mike, so if we end up getting some 15% in the future what can we do to keep drivng our cars? I know new cars with EFI can add an ethanol sensor that working the timing to keep it running good.

Remember back in the days when they stopped using leaded gas there was a mild panic but machine shops were able to do head work (seats I think?) so we could keep on cruising. Just wonder what the fix will be for us

[Cynical_1]

fix for older cars will be to stop driving them - literally.

replacement of all rubber seals in the entire fuel system, rejetting carbs, timing, etc... lots of work to get a worse running engine that gets worse mpg...

[nbristow01]

What about say an M42 swap..still won't work?

[Mike Self]

lead from gas back in the 70s. The motors most affected by that were those with high compression, cast iron heads that didn't have induction-hardened valve seats--i.e. most American performance cars. Motors with aluminum heads had hardened steel valve seats anyway, and real antique cars (pre WWII) had low enough compression that valve seat wear just didn't occur.

Higher percentage ethanol gas attacks all the rubber components in the fuel system when those rubber parts aren't engineered for contact with alcohol--that is all cars more than 15-20 years old, While the EPA reg will require labeling at the pump, what will happen is more and more pumps--especially those dispensing higher octane gas--will be E15, so pure gasoline will become more and more difficult to get. And if you're paranoid, you'll believe this is the EPA's way of forcing older cars off the road--something they've been trying to do for many years.

cheers

mike

[Pierre]

Before panicking, let's slow down a moment.

What rubber part does fuel make contact with?

Fuel lines. Anything else? The diaphragm in the fuel pump. Is that all?

I think not.

So you go to Pep Boys or Napa or Kragen, buy some fuel hose that resists ethanol and you're done. The worst scenario would be replacing your mechanical pump with an electric pump designed to run ethanol.

A small inconvenience if we want to keep driving a 40+ year old cars.

I am more worried about my L-jet M30 or K-jet M20 or even the Motronic M20 and M42.

[peteri]

Even though this may become the "standard" there will still be places to find ethanol free gasoline.

My local coop has ethanol free gas. Its usually like 8 cents more a gallon.

For the negative impacts and any changes you will have to possibly implant http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Ethanoluse.htm

[Colin]

So does this mean that none of us will ever enjoy corn with our dinner again?

[turbotom09]

I always use a shot of MMO when I fill up...I don't know how much it keeps the ethanol from drying things up, but it has to help...

[nbristow01]

Before panicking, let's slow down a moment.

What rubber part does fuel make contact with?

Fuel lines. Anything else? The diaphragm in the fuel pump. Is that all?

I think not.

So you go to Pep Boys or Napa or Kragen, buy some fuel hose that resists ethanol and you're done. The worst scenario would be replacing your mechanical pump with an electric pump designed to run ethanol.

A small inconvenience if we want to keep driving a 40+ year old cars.

I am more worried about my L-jet M30 or K-jet M20 or even the Motronic M20 and M42.

So I guess it is just the fuel delivery system that is the concern? How will 15% affect the HP and running of the motor? I read a bit on EFI but not on a carbed car

[Guest Anonymous]

The Germans engineered M10’s to burn gasoline and nothing else. Seals and Gaskets were made to handle gas, not alcohol. Ignition timing Air-fuel ratios and so on were set assuming that Gas would be burned.

But then politics and corn lobby strong armed the politically connected and started mandating stupid crap such as “oxygenated” gasoline, first with E5 then E10 now E15. The theory was it would cut down exhaust emissions by leaning out the mixture. The actual result is it DID NOT. The carburetor,KF pump will likely need to be torn down and rebuilt with parts compatible with alcohol. Floats, pumps and all other internal parts needs to be replaced to handle Alcohol.. Corrosion might also come into play for anything made in steel All for what? Save the Earth?? Talk about Panic.

[ClayW]

There's always hope: http://jalopnik.com/5933705/the-white-house-may-waive-the-epas-ethanol-requirement

[Colin]

The Germans engineered M10’s to burn gasoline and nothing else. Seals and Gaskets were made to handle gas, not alcohol. Ignition timing Air-fuel ratios and so on were set assuming that Gas would be burned.

But then politics and corn lobby strong armed the politically connected and started mandating stupid crap such as “oxygenated” gasoline, first with E5 then E10 now E15. The theory was it would cut down exhaust emissions by leaning out the mixture. The actual result is it DID NOT. The carburetor,KF pump will likely need to be torn down and rebuilt with parts compatible with alcohol. Floats, pumps and all other internal parts needs to be replaced to handle Alcohol.. Corrosion might also come into play for anything made in steel All for what? Save the Earth?? Talk about Panic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZR3gsY98VU

[Guest Anonymous]

we can talk about this later Colin. Meanwhile...

http://www.mercurynews.com/education/ci_21292931/barnidge-professor-was-slow-warm-up-climate-change