Slavs

I have collected a complete 5 speed conversion kit, tranny, shortened and balanced driveshaft, linkage, brackets etc. in anticipation of installing it on my other car, a 69 1600. But, I have become disappointed with the 5 speed conversion in my 67. For me, it's over rated. The 2002 loves to cruise at 75mph-80mph in the 4,000rpm-4,500rpm range with the stock 4 speed and 3.64 gears. It's both, in the power band and quite comfortable. So, I don't really see the need for a 5 speed overdrive and the complications associated with it. It's a lot easier for me to pull a 4 speed and re-install it vs. the same procedure on the 5 speed which is heavier and impossible for me alone to manhandle while working alone under the car. Doing the work at a shop is a lot easier, but I've been doing all my own mechanical work all these years, and I can't afford BMW specialists. I'm my own "Specialist". In addition, I don't trust most of them and / or the people they hire to do the work. I've seen enough of their sloppy handiwork and short cuts. There are probably just a handful of shops out there who do the work properly, but they are too expensive for me. That's my venting for the day. Slavs

Mike, thanks for the input regarding the 3.64 diff and 5 speed overdrive combination. I have a couple of long neck 3.64 diffs laying around. So, doesn't hurt to try. I don't think there is an easy way to replace the slave, though, short of cutting out a hatch in the tunnel. Slavs

I got to take a 2nd look at mine. There isn't much room in there. The good thing is that it lasted 12 years. I can't say that about the rest of my hydraulics like the clutch master. I'm lucky to get 5 years out of one. Maybe some of these things have been sitting around on the parts shelves too long. It was a pain aligning that driveshaft with the transmission. Some of the kit manufacturers may be changing their jigs slightly or not all 02s are alike. If that driveshaft is off a little, your Guibo won't last very long. The previous owner of the car was changing Guibos frequently before I aligned the driveshaft. With the 5 speed OD and 4.11 diff, I don't think its all worth the effort. I'm almost back where I would be with the stock 4 speed and 3.64 diff, especially with my 205/60 x 13 tires which are 3% shorter vs. stock. That reduces my gearing by an additional 3%. I'm now only 4% taller in 5th than I would be with a 4 speed and stock gearing and tires. I'd probably be better off with a 3.90, which is what most of you guys are using with these overdrive boxes.

Those of you who do your own wrenching are probably familiar with the difficulty in accessing and replacing the clutch slave on the 245/5 retrofitted to the 02. I've had mine in for 12 years, and its showing the first signs of going "South". It seems I will have to partially remove the trans to replace the slave. I'm not the biggest fan of this transmission. And, I'm on the fence of removing and replacing it with the stock 4 speed and 3.64 diff. If I have to pull back the trans every time I replace the slave, I'm done with this thing. The previous owner had it installed by a shop,and I spent two days realigning the trans and driveshaft. It entailed removing the trans cross member and slotting the trans mount hole on it. I also had to shim it about 1/8". This finally solved the vibration and guibo wear issues. And, the previous owner was charged $$$ for the conversion. It's one of the reasons I do my own mechanical work. What have some of you guys done when replacing the slave ? I've noticed that a few of you have cut out a hatch on the transmission tunnel to provide access to the slave cylinder. That's a little too much of a rat rod approach for my taste. Any tips? And, once replaced, how in the world do you bleed the damn thing ? Why in the world did they mount that slave higher up on the trans? I understand that the 320i tunnel is roomier, but it is still not the most accessible location. This may be one of the most over rated "Upgrades" to these cars. Slavs

That's a lot of work. Let us know how that 5th overdrive feels like with the 3.64 diff. I was thinking of installing a 3.64 with my 245/5. The 245/5 in my car is mated with a 4.11LSD long neck. I have a stock 2.0L engine, The gears feel a little short except when I'm in 5th. I can easily start from 2nd, and 1st gear is almost useless. But, since I have the 4.11diff I'm not gaining much over the 4 speed and 3.64 configuration of the stock 2002. The sweet combination with the 245/5 is probably the 3.90 diff. But, it's difficult finding a 3.90 long neck variant here in the US. The ones on the NK cars have drive flanges which are not pre-drilled to accept the newer style half shafts. The previous owner had the 245/5 conversion done by a BMW shop. They used one of their kits and slopped everything together. When I obtained the car I noticed the driveshaft was not aligned in neither the vertical or horizontal plane. There was some vibration. So, I had to shim and slot the transmission mount hole on the bracket. I haven't any problems in the last 10 years. My main concern is the lack of clearance between the transmission tunnel and the clutch slave. It's not going to be easy replacing the slave in the future. The previous owner had the transmission rebuilt, and the shift pattern is tight for now. I've heard that the shift patterns on many 245/5s tend to be on the sloppy or vague side.

Mike described the choke cable installation thoroughly. As far as the 32/36 Weber, I've never had good luck with the manual choke cable version. The choke literally choked the engine. I don't know if it was related to my particular carb. Now, as far as the choke cable; the stock BMW choke cables used on the single barrel Solex are too short for the 32/36 Weber. But, the generic choke cable kits they sell are of inferior quality and most, if not all, lack the special spring near the knob end which holds the choke in either the closed or open position. The factory cables all have this spring which sits in one of two grooves of the cable housing, corresponding to the open or closed positions. With the generic cables the choke cable would start moving as you work the throttle and drive the car. While picking through junkyards 20 years ago I removed a choke cable from a 60s era Mercedes. It is almost identical to the BMW cable, except it is longer, which is what you need for the 32/36. I think the choke is the least of your problems for now. Once started, you can manipulate the choke directly on the carb by hand until the motor starts up. I would check the valve clearances, install new points and plugs and set the ignition timing before I even attempted to start it. As far as the 32/36, they are easy to set and adjust. But, everything else I mentioned must check out.

Conserv and Toby summed it up; The Arizona sun probably toasted all the interior and rubber, if the car sat outdoors. The brakes are probably frozen, and the engine may or may not be frozen. If, it's not, I wouldn't attempt to start it. If it starts after you get it home, just look at it as a bonus. I'd be just looking at this car for corrosion and rust and all the early 66-67 specific parts. Don't forget the early clear glass with the factory markings. I've seen a number of 66-67 1600s and earlier NK cars at the So Cal wrecking yards during the 90s. In some cases when all the interior and rubber was toast, the body remained solid and straight with little rust. I really enjoyed finding the cars with all the original parts vs. the ones with the "Upgrades". Those were the "Pickers' Choice". I still remember the specific cars and where I found them. The NKs and early 1600s with all the trim and interior two tone color combinations had that pretty and clean "Vintage" look. Most of those cars with all their parts were crushed 20-25 years ago. The yards sold them complete with a salvage title for a mere $500, but there were few buyers. So, consider yourself lucky if you find a solid and intact car.

The 2.0L engine has a lot of torque all the way from the low RPM range. And, the 2002tii motors rev really nice with the 228mm clutch and corresponding flywheel. Don't be afraid of the larger flywheel and clutch. It was first used on the early 2002s for a reason before they were burdened with all the emissions equipment etc. It works well with the motor.

All the gauge clusters from 66-76 are the same dimension. So, that's not a problem.

The flywheel for the 228mm pressure plate and clutch disk were standard equipment on early 2002s. I have a 70 2002 which came equipped from the factory with the 228mm clutch. The e30 borrowed the 228mm clutch from the early 2002. The "tii" version of the 228mm clutch has a stiffer spring pressure plate. I personally like the 228mm clutch and flywheel. The 228mm clutch disk seems to last longer than the 215mm clutch. And, it feels like a strong hug when it engages. It also seems to hold better momentum at highway speeds, a real high speed cruiser due to the heavier clutch and flywheel. 2002s with the 215mm clutch seem to rev a bit easier. BMW eventually adopted the same 215m clutch for their 1.6L, 1.8L and 2.0L engines in the e21 line (Somebody correct me if I'm wrong). The 215mm is the most economical clutch as it is the cheapest. You got to be very careful about the minimum thickness at the clutch surface of the flywheel, especially with the hydraulically actuated clutch on the 2002. The minimum flywheel thickness for the small flywheel for the 200mm clutch of the 1600 is 13.5mm, but I believe it is 14.5mm for the 215mm and 228mm clutch. I don't have the workshop manual in front of me. Otherwise you got to put a spacer behind the flywheel to make up for the lost thickness, something I would never recommend. If, you're really hell bent on the 228mm pressure plate and disk, I would find the corresponding flywheel for the larger clutch.

As already stated above, a 70 Euro spec car will have a three piece dash with a non-padded and chrome trimmed lower dash piece. The ash trey is located in the dash and is part of the chrome trim. Even on US spec cars with padded lower dash pads there is a rectangular hole for the ash trey in the body-metal structure behind the padded section of the lower dash. So,you can retrofit a Euro Spec dash on to a US spec post 68 car. I did it on my 69 1600.

As long as we don't get on the bandwagon where everything produced by the Soviet Union and the former Warsaw Bloc was inferior junk in comparison to the "West". Let's not deceive ourselves.The Moskvitch proved better than some Fiats where I came from. But,if you lived in a village with unpaved roads the rear engine air cooled Zaporozac or the Niva was the ticket out of the mud and snow. The little Trabant was also a tough work horse, but any loose and hungry hogs would find its fiberglass body a tasty snack.

I said what I don't like about the "tii", but what I like about it is that a bone stock "tii" with the 264 degree stock cam, a four speed and 3.64 open diff will in most cases utterly outperform and run away from most hopped up home grown 2002s with high compression pistons, more aggressive cam, Weber side drafts, tight 3.90LSD diff and 5 speed overdrive. And, while doing so, it will get much better mileage.

I remember the Moskvitc from the old days. One of my relatives had one. It was known to be a solid reliable and robust Russian car with nice trim. I've also heard about the similarities between the M10 and the Moskvitch motor. Some people have suggested that the Russians purchased the license from BMW to produce the Moskvitch motor, but I don't think so. It's similar in some ways, but very different in some key elements like the engine block. The Moskvitch motor is more of a blend between an Alfa and BMW, while the body was inspired by the Alfa Giulia four door sedan, but with fins added. The roof overhang over the rear glass if very Alfa like. The headlights are very NSU Prinz.

Well, I followed that auction closely and made a few comments regarding my observations; First, the car appeared as a solid and clean 66 with many of the original 66 specific parts still in place. But, some were missing, most notably the 1600 badge on the top dash pad. This sounds trivial, as the badge is still available, but it is the first thing that captures your eye in the interior. The 66 specific top dash pad has two holes in it reinforced with sheet metal, to which the badge is affixed with its pins going clearly through the dash. The original dash pad probably cracked, so they replaced it with the next best thing; the top dash piece from a 67-71 02. One could always cut the pins off the badge and glue it to the newer dash. Nobody, including the concours judges would know the difference. What concerned me was all the black, tar like undercoating which was liberally applied to the under carriage. It was slopped all over the place including the springs. The car spent most of its life in Sweden, and evidently this is a common practice over there considering they pour salt on the roads during winter. No rust was evident anywhere, in the photos, which is rare and unusual for a 66. I suspect the car was garaged during winter months. Some people do this in Europe to save their cars as for many the car isn't primary transportation, but rather a bonus or luxury. My gut instinct tells me the car is solid, but you never know what's underneath all that goop. On the very early cars, 66-67, BMW often used two tone interiors. The rare Grey ./ Black two tone seats were usually matched with the Grey / black door panels. This wasn't the case on this 66 which had all black door panels and two tone Grey / Black seats. This may be one of the original combinations, but I'm not sure. I would come across a 66 at the wrecking yards from time to time, and I immediately recognized their uniqueness, even compared to the 67. On one occasion I came across an all original Turf Green 66 with light grey seats and two tone Grey / black door panels. The interior upholstery and colors were from another era (BMW's NK era) and much classier and prettier in appearance. Even the early vinyl was of better quality. The car had a replacement exhaust system associated with most 02s through the round tail light era. But, the 66-67 resonators and muffler were different and routed slightly differently. The muffler, in particular, was of higher quality construction and probably proved too expensive for later serial production. This was the case with many other items including drive line components and trim. While BMW improved on some things, a lot of the changes were made to cut costs. For example, the early long neck diffs were a much better design and more practical, being easier to maintain and holding more oil, but more expensive in comparison to the later short necks introduced in mid 69. And, the trim on the early cars was of higher quality. Some of the pieces were embossed, the interior mirror was polished aluminum and completely different from that of later 02s. Glove box mechanism, dash and chromed metal bits and pieces etc. were later replaced with plastic. For a purist, these details, including the muffler, are a must, but this car was a driver, and they stopped manufacturing the early 66-67 muffler in 69. There are some floating out there as NOS parts, though. The 66 cars were unique examples of the clean design first envisioned by the designer. This is still evident in the 67, but by 68, especially in the US, the 1600 was on its way from diverging from the original and clean design. BMW didn't equip the 66-68 1600s with sway bars, but provisions for mounting the front sway bar were in place. It's the first thing I did to my 68, and it made a HUGE difference in the manner the car handled. The 66 at auction lacked sway bars. There were no provisions for mounting a rear sway bar on a 66-68. The seat belt was mounted high on the "B" pillar. And, I've never seen this on any pre-70 02. The seat belts may have been retrofitted. The high mount detracts from the cars otherwise clean lines. The car had the original 6V battery and electrical system. In the Porsche and VW world the earliest incarnations with the simplest and cleanest lines are the most sought after examples by collectors. They are also the most expensive. But, this is not the case with the 02. I think it's changing somewhat, though. And, I believe that in the future, the very early 1600s such as this 66 will command the highest prices. I have never come across a 66 in such good shape. I've only seen them at the wrecking yards 25 years ago. I've never even seen one at the BMW shows. The BMW museum may have one on display. Considering the recent prices, it was a good deal at $21,500 for the earliest and purest example of an 02. But, you got to be a big risk taker to purchase a car from overseas without closely inspecting it. It is a numbers matching car, but the seller only presented this after I inquired. I got the sense that the seller had a low reserve on this car and was just trying to sell it. I didn't mention the $3,500 - $4.000 in shipping and other fees to the West Coast. It's cheaper to import pre-68 cars as the later 68 safety and smog regulations were not in place, hence no expensive conversion fees. 1600s are completely different animals than 2002s. They are short stroke high reving motors which are much more comfortable at high rpm's compared to a 2 liter. The torque curve is sharper and there is a lack of that mid range torque of the 2 liter. But, they are no slouches, either. And, in some ways they're more fun to drive. BMWs first vision for the M10 was a short stroke motor like that of the 1600. And, the short stroke configuration was never dropped as it was used in the 1802 and 1.8L US spec 1980-83 320i along with the E30 318. It's a really smooth and sweet motor. With fuel injection it has better mid range than the carb version and is very economical. Revs are up, but mean piston speeds are down; less ware on the cylinder walls, rings bearings. An incarnation of the short stroke motor was used for BMW's winning Formula 1 engine during the early 80s. The 2002s mid range torque and taller gearing proved more practical for the US roads, though. That's why they phased out the 1600 for the US market at the end of 71. Most people in the 02 community are fixated on the 2002 and "tii" and have no idea about the 66. They lump all 1600s together. But, there is actually more variation in the 1600 from 66-76 than there is in the 2002 from 68-76. The earlier NK sedans are of higher build quality than the 02 series. And, the 66-67 1600, especially the 66, retained much of NKs higher and more expensive build quality. Many "tii" owners are surprised to learn that the "tii" engine was actually developed and built in 68 and first used in the 2000tii sedan in 1969, a car with a much higher build quality than the 2002tii, first introduced in 72, 3-4 years later. Within the 2002 range, the first year, 1968, 2002 is of higher build quality in comparison to the later 02s. It retains the long neck diff and a really nice and well balanced telescopic driveshaft with grease nipple fittings on the U-joints. Even the "Bus" steering wheel is of much better quality than the similar wheel used on 69 and later cars. There are other details as well. "Tii" owners sometimes boast of the beefier brake and suspension components such as the larger front wheel bearings, but even most BMW mechanics and parts vendors are unaware that the early 1600s (66-68) and possibly the 68 2002, also have larger front wheel bearings ( Not as large as the tii bearings which are 4mm larger than the standard 02, but still larger by 2mm). BMW mechanics are often in for a rude surprise when they attempt to install the smaller 2002 bearings on the larger 1600 hub. A few people in the BMW community have suggested to me that the diminutive 1600 lacks a forged crankshaft. But, this is not the case since they confuse the later non-forged 71mm crankshafts of the 1.8L e21s and e30s with the earlier 71mm forged cranks of the 1600. The early 1600s lack the power of the 2002s, but they are of higher build quality.

Paul, No hard feelings. I get you. But, you gotta admit, this whole "tii" thing has gained a life of its own. And. I'm just making light of it. The "tii" is a great car, though. But, it wasn't BMW's workhorse like the "Plane Jane" 1600 and 2002. It's not the "People's 02",Nope !There are more things that can go wrong with it. The mechanical fuel injection components are pricey and take up a lot of room in the engine compartment etc. In my student days I drove a 68 BMW 1600. I loved the car for its simplicity, including the mechanical clutch. It was one less messy hydraulic system to repair. I just carried spare clutch linkage levers or rods in the eventuality that one of them brakes. It was hell of a lot easier and less expensive to repair than replacing a worn out clutch master and / or slave. It's like comparing a Kalashnikov Rifle such as an AK 47 to a M16 or the newer M4. If I'm out in the dusty bush and elements, I'll take the AK any day over the fickle M16. The single barrel Solex lasted 50 years of continuous use with little maintenance and cleaning.You can't say the same about the Kugelfischer injection. And, when the Solex goes "South", it's a hell of a lot cheaper and easier to replace. There are two 12mm nuts holding the single barrel in place. Loosen them and the carb is off. And, you have plenty of room to work on everything.You see, I'm looking at this from the perspective of that once 22 year old starving student using his 02 as basic transportation and keeping it on the road on a budget. That's why the majority of 02s produced by the factory were simple utilitarian cars, unlike the "Tii" and Alfa with its Spica mechanical injection. That's why the 02 succeeded. The "tii" was a special model for the "Enthusiast" like the GTV Alfa. And, you are the proud owner of one of those cars. And these Kracker Jack outfits who get a hold of a supposedly virgin mileage "tii" and "Restore" it and present it as the wholly grail of 02s are only playing on the current trend, or "uncurbed enthusiasm" as you coined it, of the 02 community. And, in the end they have the audacity to affix their badge or tag to the engine compartment. There are all types of snake oil salesmen out there, and these ones are playing on the sentiments of people afflicted with "tii" fever. Beware ! That is my gut instinct. I'm not impressed by them or their presentations.

Paul, I don't believe those mileage claims. I don't know the outfit that restored that car, but you got to question anybody that affixes their "badge" to the chassis of a car, especially to a supposedly virgin mileage classic. Are these guys trying to build their own "Brand" like "Alpina" ? Good Luck ! I'm not afflicted with "tii" fever which seems as contagious in the 02 community as the Corona virus is in the US. Nor, am I impressed by the face lifts and second thoughts, often necessitated in response to mandated US safety regulations, characterized by all post 67 US spec cars, but especially 1970s era 2002s which deviate from the original design vision. And, I'm least impressed by what I would characterize as the melon vendors of the bazaar who are looking to make a quick $$$ and drive prices through the roof. “The Werk Shop”, "This Werks", "That Werks", "Eurowerks" ; I characterize it all as "Skunkworks", and I'm not referring to Lockheed and Kelly Johnson. I've driven my 1600s as basic transportation since 1982, through college and beyond. And, I kept them on the road all these years as my own mechanic or what I would characterize as "Slavwerks" or the “Slav-Werk-Shop”. "Slavwerks" has nearly 40 years experience in building and maintaining real 02s, not "Garage Queens" and keeping them on the road as daily transportation. I live in Burbank, home of the real Skunkworks, located off San Fernando Blvd. at the Burbank Airport and adjacent to main the wrecking yards, just down the road in the hot, sweltering bowels of the San Fernando Valley where many of SoCal's classic BMWs met their end during the 80sand 90s. This includes the "tii" cars. Jay Leno set up shop, just across the runway from Skunkworks, and I've run into him on many occasions on San Fernando Blvd., often on my way to and from the wrecking yards. He always gives me a thumbs up as I drive past in one of my 1600s. Perhaps I should design my own badges and affix them to the chassis with aircraft grade aluminum rivets. I can confidently pronounce that my badges signify a higher degree of “Legitimacy”, like the “Cocarde Tricolre” of the French Revolution; Fraternite ! Egalite ! Liberte ! I'm proud to claim that each one of my cars has clocked over 200,000 miles.

Prices will sink when enough people start worrying about the roof over their head and not having enough to eat. Look what happened after the 1929 stock market collapse. Given the state of affairs, we are living in very uncertain times and walking a thin line between stability and complete disorder and chaos. Let's hope I'm wrong in my prediction.