Drunken caveman must've liked my speakers...

[npizey]

But it looks like a great oppertunity for a BIG rear-speaker setup.

What would you guys recommend?

[TMK-001]

I think it was a thing of the 70's... my car was similar :-P

[backtrail69]

I roll with 6x9s in my 2002.

[Mike Self]

I'd plug those holes and either mount your speakers in the back seat cushion riser (vertical panel under the leading edge of the back seat) or use more modestly sized surface mount speakers (much more period if you're interested in authenticity).

Most everyone who has flush mount speakers complains about gas smell in the car (even if everything in the trunk is tight)--also they're vulnerable to damage hanging down as they do into the trunk.

IMHO

mike

[Otis]

I agree with Mike. Aside from the gas smell, rear fills just don't sound that good. Please allow me to explain a bit.

I remember the day very well, when rear-deck mounted 6x9s ruled the world. I still have the Jensen Triaxles that I installed in my Pontiac Ventura II (i.e., Nova). Back then in the 70s, everyone put the biggest speakers they could on the back deck, hit the fader, turned up the bass, cranked up the volume, and rocked on down the highway. And back then, it didn't make that big of a difference -- after all, we were running glass-pack mufflers, so who could hear anything, anyway? Yet, if the intent is to keep your ride true to the 70s, then load in some massive 6x9 tri's in the rear deck, and go to it. It won't sound half bad -- but it won't sound that great, either.

As you may know, the game now is "staging." The key to good sound -- especially in a noisy vehicle like an 02, is to center (i.e., "stage") the signal so that the singer sounds like he/she/it is singing to you from right under the rear-view mirror. Many of the new cars now come from the factory with center-channel speakers in a five-channel (or more) arrangement. You don't need to go that far. But, you do need good, properly "staged" front speakers -- making the "rear fills" rather irrelevant. That is, the backs these days are called "fills," and they are only nominally important (if that) to good sound. About 2 years ago, I finally noticed that one of the fuses had blown on one of the amps that feeds my rear fills -- and I hadn't even noticed, since the fader control is mostly set to the front speakers.

Of course, you will ask, where in the world do I put speakers in the front? Well, that's a hard one in an 02. Certainly, you don't want to hack up the door panels. Personally, I built a custom set of kick-panel pods out of fiberglass. But unless you do glass work (and enjoy sanding West System epoxy), that suggestion won't do you any good. Any local custom shop will do a nice job of hiding the speakers, however -- I just sent Doug D. and his fabulous "Frankenstein" 3.0 Coupe to a custom shop, and they installed front speakers in locations that you can't even see. Doug's car (known in local circles as "the green car") is a Concours-winning show piece (second place in Super Clean at last year's Octoberfest), so he didn't want to mess up the interior with much -- but he wanted better sound. And he got it -- it sounds great! John in Va also did a beautiful job of hiding the speakers and amps -- and as everyone knows, he regularly walks the competition in every clean-car event he enters. So, it's possible to get good sound, without going to extremes (like Otis). My recommendation is that (unless you're real handy with making 'glass forms), you talk to a couple of shops, and see what they have -- can they make something for you, at a reasonable price, or can they hide a set of "separates" (separate mid range and tweeter) somewhere, where you can't tell they are there? You'll be much happier with the sound, and like Mike says, you'll smell less gas.

Let me know if you have any questions, or if I can help further -- I'm happy to offer my $.02. Indeed, although I have retired my Jensen Triaxles to the Home-Shelf Stereo Hall of Fame, I wouldn't use them again (even if I built a 70s muscle car, like a Chevelle or Cuda). Using some updated techniques and concepts, it's not that hard to get good sound in an 02 -- you just have to stay away from the rear deck, in my humble opinion.

[John_in_VA]

That's where mine came from.

Click on "interior pieces" for a look: http://www.rccarcrafters.com/

[jgerry2002]

If your rears dont fill sound properly you are using the wrong rears.

I have an older set of two-way 6.5" Denons in my '76, and it is REALLY noticeable if they are turned down. Bass and fill from the rears, the vocal is more up front (I do have a center speaker mounted in the console).

Also if they are sealed properly you will have no fuel smell. If you have fuel smell in your trunk then check the lines to the vapor trap and filler neck and of course check for leaks at your tank.

[TMK-001]

Thanks for the idea's guys... the stereo concept is playing strongly on my mind right now... I have to get things organised sooner rather than later and I am keen to hear more ideas.

[Otis]

Thanks, John -- I knew you would have the right part/source. For those who haven't seen John's car, his install is discrete and extremely tasteful. I'd definately go that way.

And thanks also, Justin, for your coments, although I probably did not communicate well enough in my posting (sorry about that). In my system, it's not that the rear fills are not filling in my system -- certainly they sound fine to my ear. I have MB Quarts 3-ways in a custom-built (and sealed) speaker panel, powered by a separate (dedicated) JL Audio water-cooled amp (200 watts). So the rear fills on my system sound just fine -- they perform their role, in other words, of "filling" in the dead spaces in the overall sound stage. What I was trying to say (inartfully, I guess) is that the system sounds better with front speakers playing the "number one role" in the system. In other words, I would stay away from a system that just has rear-deck speakers only (which was popular in the 70s), and would try instead to get as much sound up front as possible. In my opinion, the staging (also called imaging) is simply much better when the installer focuses on designing a system around front speakers, instead of rears.

Your comment about the center-channel speaker is interesting. I've tried center-channel speakers in some of my other cars, and they sound great -- for Otis, however, we did the install right when center channel speakers were just coming on the market (so not a lot was known about them). My buddy, who was helping me, didn't have any prior experience with center channels (but had 20+ years with other systems), so we didn't go with a center channel (and, I didn't want to cut the dash). But, I'm certain that your system sounds great, and would be interested in seeing how and where you installed the center channel.

As for sealing, I seem to recall that Crutchfield and others used to sell some poly forms that fit over the speaker magnets. I've never used them, but I'd assume that, like Justin says, if you seal everything up okay, you'll eliminate the gas smell.

Finally, if you want to do something really custom but don't want to start entirely from scratch, a company called Rod Doors, www.roddors.com, makes several different speaker pods, mostly for the street-rod crowd. I just acquired a set of their pods, which I'm going to try out on a new project. My first impression of them, was that they are a bit too thin for my taste (thin pods will flex and/or vibrate too much, so I'm going to have to give them a bit of reinforcement with the trust old West System. I'll probably to OT when I'm done, since the project is not for an 02.

Anyway, good luck in designing a system, and let us know what you decide to do, or if you have any questions along the way. Stereo stuff is fun, and the 02 presents its own unique set of challenges in order to get quality sound.

[Otis]

Bad link -- sorry, I'll learn to spell one of these days. www.roddoors.com.

[TMK-001]

Otis, what are you building? A nice rod is high on my list for next project.

I have been researching a fully fendered 32 roadster for a few years now. One day!

I am keen to integrate a stereo that is the least intrusive visually in the car as possible, but have decent sound.

[Otis]

Several things, my friend. Currently, I'm building a luggage trailer for Otis -- it's a reproduction of a 1930's era Mullins trailer, but I'm going to jazz it up a bit (well, a lot), with stand-alone stereo equipment, and a few things to allow us to cook some things, mix some drinks, and serve some wine -- more than just a luggage carrier, in other words. The ultimate party trailer for Otis (who, after all, likes a good party, being orange and all).

Second, I've been working on a 1953 Dodge Pickup, for about 3 years. Way cool body style; much more interesting (to me) than the been-there, done-that F-100 or '56 Chevy 1/2 ton PUs. We're down to the body work, including custom fabrication of a new pickup bed. The truck will be a challenge for sound, since I'm leaving it at 6 volts (for now). My preference is to restore the old radio (I have it -- a lucky find) and see how it sounds. If it sounds like crap (likely), I'll have to figure out some way to bracket up a 12-volt source to the old flathead motor (I don't want to convert overall to 12-volt, since I'd have to swap out too much, including the vintage gauges).

Third, I'm trying to solve the sound problems in two vehicles -- my F-350, which is simply a noisy beast (and has a regular cab, meaning tight quarters for a good sound stage), and my E-30 -- that system is overly complicated, and I'm trying to simplify it a bit (too many Optima batteries are causing the voltage to waiver, so that my headlights flicker -- among other problems). Then there's Izzy, the Isetta. I've been threatened with bodily harm if I put a custom stereo in the Isetta -- but hey, that's kinda my trademark. Give me a car, and I just have to put a stereo in it. Izzy has a long way to go before he will even run, so I have some time to plan the system -- and I have some neat ideas for Izzy -- more surprises in store, mostly just to p'o the purists (JK)!

Finally, to address your point directly, my dream ride is a '33 Ford full-fendered rod. I've been searching for a good resto candidate. The problem -- prices on the real steel ones have skyrocketed. Even if you do find one in decent shape, there's a feeding frenzy over it -- and the prices just keep heading up. It's very easy to push six figures on buying or building one, and that's just outrageous. But one day, I'm going to do one from the ground up -- maybe with help of a Fat Man chassis, some Mustang suspension, and engine from www.enginefactory.com, chop it and slam it and shave it, etc. etc. etc. My wife loves the look of them; I'm partial to the Lincoln Zephyr, myself, but she says no, the '33 Ford is more classic. That, it is -- very popular over here with the street rod crowd.

So, I have a lot of projects, and even more dreams in the works. Dangerous addictions. But in each car, I insist on one thing -- a good stereo. Granted, on a few cars (Otis, and the E-30), I've gone a bit overboard, but we all live and learn. And, it's all good fun.

Good luck with your stereo -- email me offline with any questions at davidbowen5828 at comcast dot net.

[TMK-001]

Thanks mate... I grew up in a house with a hot rodder father!

A nice 33 would be magic. With all the Americans building full steel reproduction bodies, that would be an amazing starting point!

This was dad's 1928 A Model that he built himself back in the late 80s and sold early 90's. Had a sweet stereo in it that was hidden under the seat and all the speakers consealed out of the way. I saw it recently and it almost bought a tear to my eye, it was owned by some stupid women who had done some horrendous mods to it including a cheap Sony Xplode head unit in the middle of the passengers side of the dash!

It was replaced by a 1937 Ford Roadster...

That was an amimal... 350 Chev out of a drag car rebuilt to be a little more streetable. Even with such a big car, the thing ran an 11 second 1/4 mile with the baby moons removed...

This Was our mustang, it had a thumping stereo in it... subs all concealed in the trunk, pretty well dead stock otherwise... C code with a luxury pack with the vinyl roof removed. We sold this to Cadel Evans - the Aussie cyclist who is riding the Tour De France...

Who needs a stereo with a supercharger whine!

Factory Harmann/Kardon is sweet as pie as well!

Who needs a stereo with straight out pipes!

[Otis]

Excellent pics and digest. Thanks. It's so cool seeing an old Mustang with the right-hand down-under drive. The little old lady (80 years young) across the street from me has a '65 that she bought new and -- get this -- 30,000 original miles. I drool over that car. Her husband, a retired judge, still starts it twice a week and drives it around the block. Zero modifications to it -- even has the original tires from the factory.

I also dig the Cobra (and the GT), but it seems like when you go to a car show around here, there are at least 20 Cobras. But I agree -- no stereo necessary with those open pipes.

I hate it when people go to the local Best Buy or other discount chain and purchase a Sony head, speakers, etc. It's too bad she did that to that nice ride. It takes so little to take the "step up" to a better install and better equipment. BTW, the Rod Doors site has some hidden speaker pods that fit under the seat. That might be perfect for an 02 if you don't want to chop up the interior. I'd still go with what John recommended, however -- kick panels. I'll try to post pictures of Otis's kicks. There already are some pictures of Otis' trunk -- check Bill William's post for the Vintage at the Vineyards -- the picture is, "Otis's transistor radio."

I'll also try to post a blog with pictures of my projects. First up is the Mullins hot rod trailer -- I just finished milling the hubs to accept the Panasports. Second step is to form all the speaker pods for the stand-alone sound system. Trust me, it's going to be (and look) cool.

[TMK-001]

Sounds good, get the blog going, so I can have a good look

Todd