Suspiciously Thin Door Panel

[Birdie]

My 2002 was acquired this year (2023) and I have always noticed a knock/clunk when closing the driver's door. I am also aware that the driver's side has had a fair bit of body work done over the years. Turns out the knock/clunk is the door panel reverberating upon impact. Check out this video of how just how thin and 'unstructured' the panel is.

 

First: Is it a good bet that this is a replacement door skin and either a cheap one or just one that was poorly installed?

 

Second: Does anyone have a clever idea for a fix that doesn't require a door tear down? I'm thinking of ways to reinforce the skin from the inside. I can weld but matching the shape of the door with a metal sheet sounds fairly complicated in and of itself.

 

One thing of mention: I had the passenger door card off recently, refurbishing the window mechanism, and noticed some sort of - what was once - semi-flexible sheet material applied to the inside of the door panel (see pic below). Almost like sound proofing. It had been painted at some point (the other door might be a replacement too).  

 

Wondering if something like this would be enough to stabilize the weak driver's panel.

 

All feedback/ideas welcomed.

 

 

[HobieDog]

33 minutes ago, Birdie said:

One thing of mention: I had the passenger door card off recently, refurbishing the window mechanism, and noticed some sort of - what was once - semi-flexible sheet material applied to the inside of the door panel (see pic below). Almost like sound proofing. It had been painted at some point (the other door might be a replacement too).  

 

Wondering if something like this would be enough to stabilize the weak driver's panel.

 

All feedback/ideas welcomed.

 

Yes, that thin sheet flexible sheet material you are mentioning is sound deadening. I would start by putting that  onto the inside of the door.  It’s a simple quick job that just involves taking off the door panel, cleaning the inside of the outer door skin quickly with a solvent and sticking on the sheet.   
 

Both of my originals  had fallen off and were in the bottom of the doors. After replacing it the change in sound and feel of the doors when closing was nothing short of remarkable - seriously.  I had also taken the time to line all the indentations in the structure of the interior door frame (where the door panel mounts to)

 

I used this product, but there are many others available.  

https://www.amazon.com/Siless-mil-sqft-Sound-Deadening/dp/B07BLSP8JV/ref=asc_df_B07BLSP8JV/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=242024228564&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9100273384177535948&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002293&hvtargid=pla-659522253312&psc=1

Edited September 23, 2023 by HobieDog

[visionaut]

Sounds to me like that outer door sheet metal has ‘oil canned’…you can try stiffening or supporting it, but to really fix you’ll need applied heating/cooling to shrink the loose (floppy) sheet metal…

[Mike Self]

The thin sheet metal on the driver's door:

It was obviously a replacement door, or at least extensively worked on.  If your car is a '74 or newer, the door would have a side beam that extended from front to back, about halfway between the bottom and window sill.  And regardless of year, the door would have that same asphalt panel you found on the inside of your passenger door. 

 

The easiest solution (presuming the driver's door skin isn't actually dented or permanently dished in) is to buy a piece of Dynamat (or something similar) and stick it to the inside of the driver's door (not over any rusty spots!).  That will keep the door from sounding tinny when it's closed, and will keep it from oil-canning.  As you can see from your passenger door, that's exactly what BMW did at the factory.

 

Oh, and if you didn't find a sheet of plastic either glued or taped to the door's inner surface (under the upholstery panel) you need to make a couple and fasten 'em in place.  That's called the acella cloth (even though its plastic) and keeps rainwater from wetting the back side of your doors' upholstery panels, much to their detriment and eventual disintegration. Lotsa how-to's and what material to use ln the FAQ's archives

 

mike

[Birdie]

Excellent feedback gents. It is a '76 and I thought that when I pulled the door card I would surely find some sort of beam stiffener. But alas, nothing. Definitely a replacement of some sort.

 

Yes, the plastic acella cloth was in place and as you can imagine, very old and brittle. I will be replacing it once I figure out what to do with the "oil canning" panel (learned a new term this morning and already throwing it around liberally).

 

With winter around the corner I think I'll throw on some deadening, adhese some new acella cloth and close her up for the rainy season. Can evaluate the outcome between now and spring time.

[Sam_in_VA]

I don't understand the term "oil-canning".  Doesn't oil come in plastic bottles? 😉

[JsnPpp]

I'm in there right now with my '73. There is a piece of metal that spans the length of the door around the middle. I also believe that the door skin is seam sealered to that piece of metal. It prevents the motion you are seeing too (assuming it's not oil canning for other reasons). My door is original and it looks like everything inside is original too. I can snap a photo should you want it.

 

Cheers,

 

Jason

[Birdie]

@JsnPpp any chance for a pic?

[JsnPpp]

5 hours ago, Birdie said:

@JsnPpp any chance for a pic?

You bet. Ok, upon closer inspection it is likely not seam sealer, it may be the top part of the sound deadening. On my door part of of the tar deadening is missing (fell off). Arrow shows where it is missing, you can see directly to the left where the gap b/w the door skin and the beam is filled. This is a view on drivers side door looking inside while standing outside of the car.

 

 

Regardless, on my door the part without the backing/seam sealer/sound deadening will move (not quite oil can), but the other side that has the backing does not. I can see and feel the movement when I push it and look on the inside.

 

Meant as a data point - see how your inside of the door looks where it moves the greatest. Not saying there isn't something else wrong on your car.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Jason

Edited September 24, 2023 by JsnPpp

[Lucky 7]

I just fixed this very same issue a month back. My asphalt sheets were partially loose and knocking against the skin. My skins also flexed in a way I didn’t love. The doors sounded and felt like shit. I stripped out the asphalt sheets, then ran seam sealer in the gap between the skin and the horizontal cross beam. Once that set, the inside of the skin got Dynamat and sound absorbing foam. The rattles are gone, the skin is totally rigid, and there’s no boom or reverberation when rapped with knuckles. They sound so much better. 
 

For now it’s a huge improvement. The real test will come when it’s back on the road, but that’s still a few months out.
 

If you don’t have an inner cross beam, my method doesn’t work. I dont know why somebody would remove the beam, but you could always weld one back in.  Or is it possible it’s a pre-74 door?  Not sure if they’ll even fit right, but it’s a thought. 
 

 

[Mike Self]

7 hours ago, Lucky 7 said:

then ran seam sealer in the gap between the skin and the horizontal cross beam.

Shouldn't do that, as it will form a pocket that will catch/hold water, eventually rusting the door skin all the way through...  You'd be amazed as to how much water runs down the door's insides when it rains--even with tight seals at the window/door junction.  

 

mike

[Lucky 7]

Yeah, I know. I didn’t do a continuous bead for that reason. It’s still perhaps not a perfect solution, but I needed to do something to stiffen up the skin. It’s garaged and I live in the desert, so I went for it.  If my car turns to Swiss cheese, I’ll definitely accept the “told you so.”😆

 

edit: oh, and it’s also very worth mentioning that the sound foam is hydrophobic. Important detail for reasons Mike mentions above. Sorry, should have said both of these things in my original post. 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Lucky 7

[Birdie]

So in summary, considering I don't care to paint my car right now, tack welding a beam on to the interior of my door panel is not a great option as it will surely blemish my already crappy paint. I do plan to paint in the future and will re evaluate my door at that time.

 

I could "temporarily" adhese a beam to the skin with epoxy, etc. Being careful not to make a continuous connection so that water can make its way down and out. I don't love this kind of fix so..

 

Therefore, I think I will start with nothing more than sound deadening and see what that offers in the way of rigidity. While not my dream fix it might do for now and when I repaint, maybe I concoct a clever way to weld a beam that also lets water flow down.

 

One last thing for what it's worth  - in reading this thread I realize that it is important to use single vertical strips of sound deadening, thus avoiding any horizontal seams where water can get between the SD panels. 

 

Will post pics and results - good or bad - when complete.

[TobyB]

It's likely you simply have an early door.

Or a later BMW replacement, which was, in effect, aftermarket.

Truly aftermarket doors are relatively recent (last 15 years or so)

 

The 2002 was BMW's attempt at a shitbox (read The Stainless Steel Carrot)

and in some ways they succeeded.  The early doors are

very light, and very susceptible to oilcanning, even if undamaged.

I would NOT try adding structure to the door unless you're ready to weld

it in.  All you'll do is create another potential stabby death that may pop out 

of the door at you if smacked at the wrong angle.  If you want to weld something

you could very easily do so without messing up the paint on the doorskin.

 

I was recently inside an E39 door-  the front part of the inner panel is welded to

the back part, because they are different gauges of metal.  BMW certainly learned

about how to make an efficient, strong from the 2002 experience.

 

t

 

[Birdie]

2 hours ago, TobyB said:

If you want to weld something

you could very easily do so without messing up the paint on the doorskin.

Interesting that you believe I can make some tacks on the interior that won’t blemish the exterior paint. What gauge/profile steel do you think would be suitable for this beam?

 

Actually something just came to mind. The diameter of the holes in the door skin that accept plastic belt trim clips are smaller than stock. Stock clips won’t fit. I think I’ve seen after market doors that do not come with holes. Therefore, I’m going w, I have aftermarket doors.

 

And thanks for broader context - it’s always helpful.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Birdie