Driveshaft balacing dynamic ring

[PatAllen]

Anyone ever heard of theses balacing rings ?

 

As a person who kepp trying to resolve issues with drivelines inbalance, i am interested to see how far thoses can trully correct inbalance and how, its not a new technology its very old, just like the clothes washer balance ring technique. ive seen some forums tlak about it but never a true technical review and real test.

http://www.balancemasters.com/driveshafts.html

 

 

[John76]

Interesting Pat.

However, I'm a bit skeptical since this Balance Masters video was done 11 years ago, and we haven't heard a word about the technical (unbiased) review(s). 

John

[jimk]

The technology is not new.  Whirlpool was using it on their washing machines in the 1960s to balance uneven loads.  It works when the imbalance is in a different place with every clothes load.  It's also been used in wheel balancing back in the 1980s.  Problem is with a wheel or shaft with imbalance in the same place all the time, the weight in the ring has to find the balance each time it come up to speed.  So if you don't mind the shakes until it balances everytime you stop and start driving again, have at it.

[cda951]

I am not aware of your exact issue, but are you having trouble finding a good driveshaft balancing shop in Quebec? The cardan shaft used by BMWs are quite conventional, and should be very straightforward for a decent driveline shop. Maybe try to find a place that does truck driveshafts?

 

That said, I could not find a place to balance the driveshaft of my Alfa GTV6 a few years ago, and Southern California is littered with driveshaft shops. But none had the fixtures for the driveshaft unique to the rear transaxle Alfas. These have no less than THREE giubos and a center support bearing, and always spin at engine RPM because of the rear-mounted clutch. So, balance is especially important for smooth running. Mine always had an annoying, low-frequency vibration at the 2500-3000 RPM range, and could not get it to go away, even after all new giubos and engine/transaxle mounts, realigning everything, etc.

 

I downloaded a vibration app for my iPhone and pinpointed the general area where the vibration was worst, and then measured runout of the driveshaft using a dial indicator. It seemed the forward part of the two-piece shaft was very slightly bent. So, I started with one hose clamp, and then two, and made gradual adjustments until the vibration went away. Still smooth as butter 3-4 years later!

Edited October 8, 2021 by cda951

[PatAllen]

well, dont get me wrong i dont have a specific issue right now. Maybe just a OCD about car vibration in general, 

 

==>>i just want to know if anyone have experience or story related to this balancing ring from this company....looks like absolutely not at all...

 

i know how it works and also mentioned about the washing machine thing. its very common. i just want to see this performing on a car....

 

I have my own driveshaft balancing machine, vibration analyser and whats not. rebuildig BMW ds is common and normal for me, for the past 30 years of my life i am diong it, i have a lathe and mill, machining groove for the stacked joint is easy for me, BUT finding shop that can balance them properly is always an issue hence all my searches and the need to learn and understand. and ended up with my own machine. i have very good results btw. i can balance a DS to fine stupid limits. I am just exploring other ideas. 

 

intersesting about the Alfa DS, my friend is restoring his GTV6 and came up to me with his 3 guibo DS last week...i am building adapters so we can balance it on my machine. the center support is very similar to the BMW ones except that it is offset. the two ends are unique, one end will use a 26mm bearing and the other end a trunion support. the 2500-3000 rpm range vibration falls rignt into the 45hz 1st harmonic that i experience and measure with my BMW as well and can be felt and heard on my jig very easely. for example on my E60 i experience this specific vibration at 80kph, it falls right at about a 2800rpm ds speed/45hz.

 

the DS on the video is not a 2002 DS, it is from a E60, with a center u joint and a rear CV joint. the 2002 doesnt use CV joint. quite different.

 

 

[cda951]

@PatAllen, very cool, thanks for sharing!

 

You would probably be interested in this company, I came across this while searching for info about my GTV6 driveshaft a few years ago:

 

https://www.transaxle-balancing.com/media.html

 

As for the "balance master" rings, as @jimk said, the website states that only achieve equilibrium once the underlying imbalance occurs, so they appear to only be useful in the case of changing imbalances. The website cited the example of a truck the often drives in muddy conditions and the driveshafts get caked in dirt. I suppose that happens in those applications.

 

It sounds like you know what you are doing, so it might be fun to pick up a few of those balance rings and play around with them.

[PatAllen]

3 hours ago, cda951 said:

@PatAllen, very cool, thanks for sharing!

 

You would probably be interested in this company, I came across this while searching for info about my GTV6 driveshaft a few years ago:

 

https://www.transaxle-balancing.com/media.html

 

As for the "balance master" rings, as @jimk said, the website states that only achieve equilibrium once the underlying imbalance occurs, so they appear to only be useful in the case of changing imbalances. The website cited the example of a truck the often drives in muddy conditions and the driveshafts get caked in dirt. I suppose that happens in those applications.

 

It sounds like you know what you are doing, so it might be fun to pick up a few of those balance rings and play around with them.

 interesting...

i am on my way to fabricate a reverse wheel dyno...instead of having the car to drive a roller, i will have a big AC motor to drive 2 rollers and put the car on, and then vary the speed and inspect for source of vibrations while under the car....in short thems this will means balacing the DS on the car with proper methos (forget me using hose clamps). iam doing it this way to avoid having a 2nd person in the car trying to hold the car speed thry the car motor...the AC motor will do it and with a hand held HMI i will be able to control it all from under. almost like the guy is doing on the link...so, i am not that crazy considering someone else is doing it....

Edited October 8, 2021 by PatAllen

[PatAllen]

god damned fat fingers on a iphone4 sorry for all the typos.

[Mike Self]

I had a very annoying driveshaft imbalance on my '73--it only occurred between 54 and 62 mph--and this was 1978, back in the day of the 55 mph speed limit.  I suspected a disintegrating guibo or bad center support bearing, but when I crawled under the car to look they were both fine--but the original rear tranny mount was black goo.  

 

I replaced it with the larger rear mount from an E21--tht cured the problem once and for all--no vibration since.  So checking that tranny mount is worth the effort before removing the driveshaft,....

 

mike

 

 

[PatAllen]

21 minutes ago, Mike Self said:

I had a very annoying driveshaft imbalance on my '73--it only occurred between 54 and 62 mph--and this was 1978, back in the day of the 55 mph speed limit.  I suspected a disintegrating guibo or bad center support bearing, but when I crawled under the car to look they were both fine--but the original rear tranny mount was black goo.  

 

I replaced it with the larger rear mount from an E21--tht cured the problem once and for all--no vibration since.  So checking that tranny mount is worth the effort before removing the driveshaft,....

 

mike

 

 

thanks mike but as i said, actualy, it has nothing to do with an existing problem. my 02 is fine as i balanced everything to fine limits years ago. cannot say the same for my uber sensitive E60, E92 and my friend E39 who seems to have bad temper at some rpm/torque, regardless of the condition of everything. its a matter of having the thing balanced on the car...not in a jig. 02 are far less sensitive to this situation i can tell you. sure enough if you have bad components in the drivetrain to start with its bad, period. having a fine expensive car with virtualy "NO" NVH is something else. this is my goal.

[02Pilot]

I can vouch for the propensity of the more modern chassis to driveshaft vibration. I spent the last six months chasing vibrations in my E82 128i. After two new driveshafts I've gotten to the point where it's good up to ~75mph, then it starts to become noticeable, and increases with road speed from there. Everything from the flywheel to the axles (inclusive) has been replaced, with the sole exception of the transmission. I may just get under there again and try the hose clamp trick, just to see if it makes a difference.

[jimk]

The differential pinion shaft needs to be parallel to the engine/transmission shaft or the double cardon joint driveshaft design, which the 02 has, will vibrate with a noticeable rumble.

Edited October 8, 2021 by jimk

[Roland]

Pat, you are probably familiar with these links.  The first video illustrates something small enough to theoretically work with a driveshaft.  Real-world application, I don't know.

 

https://www.centramatic.com/how-centramatic-balancers-work.rhtml

https://www.innovativebalancing.com/

 

Evidently, some truckers and trailer owners are fans: 

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f438/centramatic-balancers-update-32907-3.html#post399236

https://www.cumminsforum.com/threads/centramatic-or-balance-masters.2115577/

 

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by Roland