engine and drivetrain ITB EFI + Stand-alone ECU build thread

[jimk]

The other nice thing about the early e21 manifold is that you have to machine out your injector bungs so you can choose the angle and depth of of your injector placement

I did the accurate machine work on inserts and rough drilled/reamed the manifold.   A hand held drill will follow the original holes nicely.  Stepped the OD of the inserts so they would be impossible to be sucked in, the epoxied them in place.  I locked the fuel rail to the manifold with light braces to restrain the injectors/fuel rail.

[Chamonix72]

I like the IAT. Very clean/stealth. I will be asking you a LOT of questions as I progress. Your setup looks VERY clean. Nice work!

How would you describe the difference between this setup and when you had dual carbs?

I used to have my IAT in the backing plate of my air filter (RamFlo). Then I went to these stacks, and needed something else.

The cleanliness of the build is due to Patrick at Midnight Motortsport. He and Le Tran are kindred spirits in many ways.

I never had dual carbs on this car. But I love the sound, and the overall performance. The car seems more awake now. Very well matched to the cam.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Chamonix72

[yezzir]

Exciting! I'm also trying not to use wasted spark (EDIS), but am wondering what others are using for a cam sensor. Anyone have experience with this??

[winstontj]

Exciting! I'm also trying not to use wasted spark (EDIS), but am wondering what others are using for a cam sensor. Anyone have experience with this??

Did an air conditioning kit come out that I missed? Everyone seems to be running AC and scared of a 36-1 wheel. 

 

Quick & dirty solution... get an old VW distributor and modify that??

 

What is so bad about wasted spark? What have I missed?

Edited December 11, 2015 by winstontj

[Preyupy]

I am using the AEM EMS4 with ITBs on a very serious 2 liter (215 hp @ 8000 rpm) I also used the AEM High Output IGBT coils. I am using TPS for my load signal (MAP was not accurate enough at lower throttle settings due to the high overlap on the camshaft and weak vacuum signal. I am using a AEM EPM (engine position sensor) #30-3255 and I modified a distributor housing and mounted the EPM to it. This unit will give you both crank and cam position so you can run sequential injection and multiple coil ignition. I am very happy with the system and it has been very easy to tune.

[jdeitch]

Redacted

Edited December 12, 2015 by jdeitch

[jimk]

A cam sensor I made and used on the M10

[burndog]

Exciting! I'm also trying not to use wasted spark (EDIS), but am wondering what others are using for a cam sensor. Anyone have experience with this??

 

I have a Megasquirt MS3X with sequential injection / ignition coil on plug using a pertronix in an old mechanical advance distributor for the Cam Position Sensor signal.

 

Works flawlessly and very inexpensive.

 

PS. I think I owe Toby for that suggestion!!!!

Edited December 12, 2015 by burndog

[jdeitch]

I am using the AEM EMS4 with ITBs on a very serious 2 liter (215 hp @ 8000 rpm) I also used the AEM High Output IGBT coils. I am using TPS for my load signal (MAP was not accurate enough at lower throttle settings due to the high overlap on the camshaft and weak vacuum signal. I am using a AEM EPM (engine position sensor) #30-3255 and I modified a distributor housing and mounted the EPM to it. This unit will give you both crank and cam position so you can run sequential injection and multiple coil ignition. I am very happy with the system and it has been very easy to tune.

Awesome! Thanks for sharing. Your build sounds VERY close to the direction I'm headed. I had planned to machine an old dizzy for the the AEM EPM as well. Great to know it is all that is needed for individual cylinder control. I will be in contact with you for sure! What size ITBs are you using?

[jdeitch]

I am using the AEM EMS4 with ITBs on a very serious 2 liter (215 hp @ 8000 rpm) I also used the AEM High Output IGBT coils. I am using TPS for my load signal (MAP was not accurate enough at lower throttle settings due to the high overlap on the camshaft and weak vacuum signal. I am using a AEM EPM (engine position sensor) #30-3255 and I modified a distributor housing and mounted the EPM to it. This unit will give you both crank and cam position so you can run sequential injection and multiple coil ignition. I am very happy with the system and it has been very easy to tune.

Do you have (Are you using) inputs from O2 and knock sensor too? Domyounhave a IAS in you system?Are you doing individual cylinder mapping?

Edited December 12, 2015 by jdeitch

[jdeitch]

A cam sensor I made and used on the M10

Awesome design/machine work. Feel like making another? ;-)

[Preyupy]

I am using 45 mm ITBs. I am also using an O2 sensor as the EMS4 has closed loop and logging capability (this helps a lot with tuning)  I am not using a knock sensor but the ECU is capable of using one.  You can also map each cyl individually.  I did my mapping on an engine dyno with EGT as well as O2 sensors. 

[jdeitch]

I'm running a similar ITB set-up to some of these other folks, but less aggressive than what you are targetting in terms of compression, COP, etc... Like you, I also am running an S14 block mated to an E12 head. I was previously using the serpentine-like E21 manifold and was excited, but simultaneously stressed, when moving to ITBs as I'd heard many issues with tuning. I've been running MS for 6 or 7 years I'd guess with zero issues, and when I transferred to the ITBs stayed with MAP based tuning. I had every intention of switching to AlphaN or a blended approach, but honestly, have been super happy with how the car has performed on the MAP based tuning once I re-worked it for the ITBs. I never did dyno it with the old intake manifold, but have done so with the ITBs both with and without full radius air horns, and an airbox, and saw basically zero impact. I keep the mixture on the rich side, especially at the top end, and pay no attention to economy. This is not because I own oil fields in the middle east, but rather because I put so few miles on the car that I may as well get the maximum enjoyment out of it. If you are going to swap to ITBs, or do any performance modifications to a 40 year old car, I would hesitate to cite economy as a reason, it's all about the giggle factor. Oh, and JimK knows his stuff when it comes to tuning, listen to what he has to say. Good luck with your project!!

 

 

What airbox is this?  Is this the BEAST box?  I MUST have one of these for my beastly S10!

[Grover]

Jdeitch. The airbox is an old Lee Vuong Massive CF box. They were originally built to work with dual side drafts. However, when fitting to my ITBs it required some adapting as I wanted some airhorn extensions as well as sufficient clearance over the brake booster. Specifically, I made (with the help of a friend with much better fabrication skills than me) an adaptor plate that bolts to the CF box itself. This plate, on the inside, has some machined black Delrin rounded-lip airhorn tips. Then, coming off the ITBs themselves are simply some straight round tube airhorn extensions which essentially slip into the Delrin cups attached to the adapter plate. In other words, the entire airbox assembly just slides on and off. It is a very snug fit, so once it's on, it slide off without some persuasion. I don't have any picture of the adapter set-up off the car, sorry, but here are a couple that can give you a decent idea. Hope that helps.

 

[stuff]

Dear reader,

On a scale of 1.0 to 10.0, with 10.0 being "would commit heinous crimes to acquire", how much I love that air box registers approximately 52.9. However, I may be underestimating my wants here.

In case I am being obtuse, or you are unable to read between the lines, or math is not your thing: man, that's awesome!!

Great looking build, Grover!