body and interior What year (range) seats are these?

[Conserv]

If you look at U.S. '72 model year cars (manufactured September 1971 through August 1972), you will find chrome recliners as well as black-painted recliners. There is nothing statistical about this approach, nor does it definitively identify which seats are today original and which have been swapped, but chrome recliners are certainly common during this period.

 

I just went on eBay. There were 3 U.S. '72 models listed, but only one showed a photo of the seat hinges. VIN 2581006, in the following listing, has chrome recliners.

 

http:/n/www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-2002-2-door-1972-bmw-2002-amazing-personality-husky-under-the-hood-catches-all-eyes-/301511454072?forcerrptr=true&hash=item46337bad78&item=301511454072&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

 

Photos 3, 11, 12, and 13 show the chrome recliners clearly. Are the seats original to the car? I don't know for certain, but they certainly could be.

But if you focus solely on U.S.-spec tii's, tii's present a different story from non-tii's. I have not yet seen a 1972 tii — with what I believe are original front seats — with black-painted recliners. Stated differently, 1972 U.S.-spec tii’s had chrome recliners. This statement does not apply to Euro-spec tii’s of the same vintage. A few examples:
 

I. VIN 2760563 - An eBay listing for an early-'72 model year tii:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/252114399669?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The saddle seats certainly appear to be original to this very clean and stock-appearing early '72. Chrome recliners. VIN 2760562 should be a January '72 car.

 

II. VIN 2761399 - Another eBay listing shows a mid-'72 model year tii:

url="http://www.ebay.com/itm/161602991864?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT"]http://www.ebay.com/itm/161602991864?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT[/url]

The navy blue, chrome-recliner seats in VIN 2761399 certainly appear to be original to this very original -- but very rusty -- Polaris tii. If VIN 2761350 was manufactured April 7, 1972, VIN 2761399 was probably manufactured in April 1972.

 

III. VIN 2761583 - Another tii, with well-worn saddle seats shown in the photo below (parted in September '15 due to rust; seats found a home in another '72 tii). 2761583 is perhaps a May 1972 example.

 

IV. VIN 2761816 - And here's yet another eBay listing for a '72 tii. The navy blue, chrome-recliner seats in VIN 2761816 certainly appear to be original to this quite original -- but amateurly color-changed -- Fjord tii:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111613749227?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

2761816 is also between the April 7, 1972, VIN 2761350 and the July 10, 1972, VIN 2762204, probably a May or June 1972 car.

 

V. VIN 2762204 (July 10, 1972) - The totaled '72 I parted in '74, described above in Post #5, certainly had its original -- and well-dated -- seats and they certainly had chrome recliners, as discussed and shown previously in this thread.

 

VI. VIN 2762358 (July 31, 1972) - A grungy Agave '72 tii on eBay, appears to have original saddle seats and door cards. I don't know the seats are absolutely original to the car but the color suits the original Agave-color exterior and NOTHING about this car suggests it has ever been restored or even "improved"! Twelve pleats on the front seats, so likely un-changed. Chrome recliners.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151913209832?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

VII. VIN 2762567 (August 1972) - And yet another '72 tii with chrome recliners:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271990183776?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

2762567 is very close to the end of '72 model year tii production (2762630 commences the '73 model year). It's safe to assume it is an August '72 car. The seats are disclosed to be recovered -- only 10 pleats across the perforated vinyl center section and typically "off" color -- but they clearly have chrome recliners.

 

Round taillight front seats, almost as a rule, have dated inspection cards — generally in the backrest. This could help to further authenticate seats as original to a car.

At the risk of injecting yet more mis-information into this discussion, I have more than a few times heard that "tii's came with chrome recliners," a claim I had once flatly rejected. Yes, I've rolled my eyes at this claim! But now I ask whether BMW, in their transition from chrome to black-painted recliners, might have given preferential treatment to certain sub-models. I don't know; I'd love to have sufficient data to determine how this transition -- and many other trim transitions -- were actually implemented. And until someone proves this statement foolish, I believe '72 model year tii's came with chrome seat recliners! U.S.-spec 1973 model tii’s, on the other hand, appear to have all been outfitted with black-painted recliners.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[Conserv]

And the OP’s seats have now appeared on eBay:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301537795820?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

albeit at a fairly shocking price for a pair of '73 front seats in fair condition: $850 plus shipping.

 

Perhaps our intense focus on them augmented their value!

 

Seller states they are out of his/her '73.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Conserv

[wilfredski]

Done anyone know if you can put late model 1975 vinyl covers on early model 1969'ish REAR seats please? 

 

I have an early model rear seat with the pleats all the way across, but want to update my interior to period-correct 1975.

 

New covers I'm looking to buy...

 

B

 

Early model seat "carcass"...

[Conserv]

10 hours ago, wilfredski said:

Done anyone know if you can put late model 1975 vinyl covers on early model 1969'ish REAR seats please? 

 

I have an early model rear seat with the pleats all the way across, but want to update my interior to period-correct 1975.

 

New covers I'm looking to buy...

 

B

 

Early model seat "carcass"...

Uhhh... possibly, if you’re installing a complete new cover and fastening it fresh on its “new” frame.

 

The backrest frame of a 1975-76 rear seat is more “bucketed” than the backrest of a 1969 seat, as the bucketing increased a bit in April 1971 (thank you Jim G.) and, again, in September 1973 (with the square taillight cars). I’m guessing that a 1975-76 style cover can nonetheless be pulled taut on the flatter early backrest frame.

 

The bottom cushion frame of a 1975-76 seat (along with frames from late 1971 onward) has a bit more space at the rear outside corners to accommodate self-retracting rear seat belts. The new seat cover could probably be pulled taut, but there is some possibility the 1969 frame could interfere with the operation or installation of retracting rear seat belts.
 

Rear seats in need of reupholstering are fairly plentiful and cheap. I’d probably look for one from a 1975-76 car — or, at least, a 1974 car.

 

Just as a reference, below is the original rear seat of my ‘76, with its original covers. Note the number of pleats: two sets of 8 pleats for 1975-76 rear seats.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[wilfredski]

Thanks Steve,
 

Ok I think I’ll buy all the black vinyl covers at the same time from “world upholstery” (front and rear seats) to ensure the dye and vinyl is consistent. I’ll cover the 1975 front seats I’ve sourced already, then hopefully source and cover a 1975 rear seat here in Australia at some stage to replace the 1969 rear seat currently installed.

Very much appreciate your insight.

Mark.

Edited September 26, 2020 by wilfredski

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, wilfredski said:

Thanks Steve,
 

Ok I think I’ll buy all the black vinyl covers at the same time from “world upholstery” (front and rear seats) to ensure the dye and vinyl is consistent. I’ll cover the 1975 front seats I’ve sourced already, then hopefully source and cover a 1975 rear seat here in Australia at some stage to replace the 1969 rear seat currently installed.

Very much appreciate your insight.

Mark.

Smart man!

 

Since you’re in Australia, there won’t be any 1976 rear seats, but you should feel comfortable with 1974-75 rear seat frames.

 

The 1974 seats look like the seats shown below. They’re easily recognizable by the panels of smooth vinyl on the back rests above the pleats.

 

Good luck,

 

Steve

 

 

 

[Mike A]

So Steve, given your expert description of the eared headrest update being early 73, these seats on a Jan 73 car would be correct I assume .

[Conserv]

33 minutes ago, Mike A said:

So Steve, given your expert description of the eared headrest update being early 73, these seats on a Jan 73 car would be correct I assume .

Uhh... definitely maybe, Mike!

 

One of the dates we have not yet pinned down is precisely when — this, foolishly, assumes there actually was a precise “when”, as defined by a date or VIN — the switchover from tubular to eared headrest occurred. It happened in “early 1973”, but I have an impression — yes, my impressions have often been proved wrong — that “early 1973” doesn’t necessarily mean January 1, 1973.

 

Yes, I believe that the increase in the diameter of the headrest supports and the change in headrest shape were driven by U.S. D.O.T. regulations. And such regulations were generally required by a January 1 date. But we’ve seen, too often, that the actual changeovers dictated by increasing U.S. regulations, as effected by BMW, occurred before and after the January 1st dates established by the U.S. regulations.

 

Pull the rear panels off those front seats (6 Philips-head screws each) and look for the factory inspection tags, which are usually date-stamped by the inspector (below, a tag from a seat manufactured June 20, 1972 [“20. 6. 72”]). If those dates pre-date the car’s manufacturing date by a bit, then you’ve almost certainly got original seats. If they post-date the car’s manufacturing date, then you don’t.... ?

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[Conserv]

Continuing the topic of “When did the 12mm. headrest supports and the eared headrests arrive?”, here’s some additional information.

 

Currently on eBay, and discussed in this forum’s Cars for Sale classifieds, is VIN 2763308, a 1973 tii manufactured January 22, 1973 by my estimates. The front seats pass the “late round taillight vinyl test” and the “black-painted recliner test”. They have, however, 10 mm. headrest supports and tubular headrests. But are they original to this late January 1973 car? I don’t know. If they’re dark blue — which frequently reads like black in photos — I’m leaning toward original. But if they’re black, I’m leaning toward swapped. The ease and the prevalence of swapping ‘02 interiors makes it difficult to discern a meaningful data point (e.g., an original seat) from a meaningless data point (e.g., seats moved from another ‘02).

 

Whether or not the seats currently in VIN 2763308 are original to that car, the BMW parts binders, in a version updated to July 1976, show VIN’s for the U.S.-spec. cars at the conversion from 10mm. to 12mm.:

 

2002, VIN 2588023

2002A, VIN 2533761

2002tii, VIN 2763352

 

The second and third photos below, taken of pages from the parts binder, show these VIN’s for the changeover. I don’t yet have precise manufacturing dates fir the changeover VIN’s, but all are around February 1, 1973.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[La Niña]

On 1/30/2015 at 6:13 PM, 2k2tii said:

Hi All,

I need some help determining what year -range- these sets came in for the 2002/2002tii.

71-73? 74? 75-76? Your knowledge is much appreciated.

Cheers.

i have a perfect set of marine blue seats like the ones shown in the original post of this thread. 
 

message if interested.