engine and drivetrain Most Reliable/best Current Source For Electronic Ignition?

[KFunk]

OK, fiiiiinally got around to swapping in Jason's old Crane XR3000 and got the 2002 back out.  I got sick for a week or two, and had to change CV boots on the wife's newer Subaru and other preventative maintenance on it, etc.

 

The Crane system seems pretty simple and the car feels a little more badass now.  I'm not sure if I like the plastic shutter wheel (seems a little flimsy/loose), but once I put the rotor on there, it held in place well.  Trying to put the screw in to hold the sensor in with the wheel in the way was near impossible, but I got it in.  

I'm not sure where you guys have mounted your ignition boxes, but I fabbed up a shitty little bracket to hold it in the slot that originally held the washer bottle, so there was no drilling required on the car itself.  My washer bottle was long ago relocated to the top of the brake booster, like on '76 models.  

I'm going to give the car a general tune up tomorrow (synch carbs, adjust valves, change oil, etc.), then see what it can do.

 

Then it'll be time to take it over the hill to the body shop for some windshield frame replacement.... 

[dlmrun2002]

What he said

 

BTW, the company that I work for 'Granite Construction' is one of the selected builders of the new Tappan Zee Bridge.  Hope it's a successful project.

 

http://www.tappanzeeconstructors.com/

Well I hope they tie up the barges better then the past barges  that  have broken free.

dlm ny country

[KFunk]

Well, that sure didn't go as planned.  I had it running great, and decided to take it to town to pick up a new drive belt for the mower on Sunday.  It did great for 15 minutes or so, until I got on the highway, and then it suddenly stopped.  I managed to coast down an exit ramp. 

At first the indicator light one the XR3000 wouldn't light up at all.  I wiggled and squeezed some wires, and eventually it turned on, but misfired a lot.  It looked like the shutter wheel is wiggling some on the shaft.  I fiddled with it a while, and tried resetting the timing, and just could not get it to stay running long enough for me to get out and wiggle the dizzy until I could get the timing close.  I gave up, and dealt with some of the worst service I've ever had from AAA (they actually asked if my car was 'modified.')

 

I think something else is going on besides the issue with sorting out spark timing.  It was the same basic way the ignition cut off last time.  No stumbling like a fuel problem (and glass filter full), just a sudden loss of spark.  Hotwiring to the coil didn't work last time, and it probably won't work again.

Perhaps the blue coil shuts down after driving a while, for some odd reason.  I kind of wanted to upgrade to a PS-91 coil anyways, and one will get here today.  I also ordered some more of the shutter wheels.  Either I don't have it installed right, or the used one is a little sloppy and not pinching tight enough, or my dizzy shaft isn't holding it tight enough (lobes worn?).  I'm also throwing on a new cap and rotor, for good measure.  No signs of problems from them, but it's been 9 years since I changed them and the coil. 

[Gil. H.]

I've been following this and other similar threads on ignition for some time now. I switched from points to a hot spark about 6 months ago and noticed improvement with a more consistent idle and better acceleration. First thing was to get the carb and timing as spot on as possible.  I thought this was as good as it would get, idle was consistent and response was decent, but I'd still bog down ever so slightly.

I recently purchased and installed a Mark Ten B, CDI ignition, I know "Old Skool", but it's made things better still. Car starts on a 1/4 turn in the morning, instant smooth idle and performance is best I've ever been able to dial in. Picked it off of Craiglist and installed it in about 30 minutes, easy-peasy. As good as an MSD or Crane, I dunno? But I've got something that works for less than 1/3 the price of the other two and the changes I've made can be reversed quickly and easily if something goes down.

Again, the FAQ has been invaluable in helping me figure out the best combinations and setups.

[eurotrash]

Just saw this Kevin.  Where are we?

[KFunk]

Just saw this Kevin.  Where are we?

 

In what terms do you mean?  The XR3000 you sent seems to work great and I'll probably use it for a long time to come, but I may have other problems.  I've got a new PS-91 coil, cap, and rotor ready to put on, and I'll re-conjigger the shutter wheel and see if I can make it better.  It's cold in the garage though, and I'm lazy, and I have other cars I can drive if necessary.  I'll probably spend a while first figuring out how to mount the coil first, or I may just watch some MadMen, House of Cards, Trailer Park Boys, and watch the fire in the woodstove tonight, though.

[eurotrash]

Look at running a new wire from fuse 12, as a test

[KFunk]

Look at running a new wire from fuse 12, as a test

 

Jason:  Which one is Fuse 12?  If you mean just running 12V straight to coil to make sure it has power, I did that the first time I lost power, and it didn't help.  I didn't try it the 2nd time yet, since I suspect that's not the problem.  If it persists, I will do it again, though.

 

I've went ahead and mounted the PS-91 coil in there, but don't feel like wiring it up tonight.  I'm not exactly sure how I'm going to connect two females to one post on each side of that coil (need both crane red wire and 12V supply on positive, and crane yellow wire and tach on negative side).  I guess I could splice wires together to a single female, but I'd rather be able to connect/reconnect easier.  Some kind of T of some sort I guess I'll rig up. 

 

I've got my old Bosch blue out and am testing it with multimeter.  Around 3.4 ohms between pos. and neg., which I think is about right.  I have 5.3 kOhms between side post and center, which seems on the low side compared to numbers I'm googling (7.5 to 13.5kOhms).  I'm still looking for a firm number, but I don't think there is one, and it may not prove anything anyways.

[eurotrash]

They make a single female to 2 male adapter. I have a few.

So you had the issue before the crane?

[KFunk]

They make a single female to 2 male adapter. I have a few.

So you had the issue before the crane?

 

but i want 2 females to 1 male!  C'mon man, I don't go in for the MMF.  I think I know what you mean though.

 

Well the first time it failed a couple weeks ago in the similar way (with HotSpark), it was similar in that after getting it warmed up and driving ~15 minutes, it just suddenly stopped firing while going highway speed.  After sitting a minute, it started again, then shut off shortly after, then just wouldn't go at all.  I immediately assumed the hotspark was the culprit that time.  I kinda wanted to upgrade to Crane anyways.  Then it died in the same way with the Crane on Sunday.  Even if the timing was off a hair with a wiggly shutter wheel, I should've been able to get it to run somewhat, but I couldn't.

Now I'm wondering if it was a funky coil to begin with.  I replaced the coil in '05, but that was a lot of years and miles ago.  I guess I've had this car long enough to start breaking things that I've already replaced when I first got it. 

Edited April 16, 2014 by KFunk

[eurotrash]

Ha! Two females one coil I guess.

Yeah. Well. Hopefully that's it. I need a better coil too. Either blue (recommended with 123) or that P90X one

Edited April 16, 2014 by eurotrash

[B-Merry]

I've had my Tii for about a year. I took it over to Bill Holmes at Bavarian Rennsport for some work. He recommended points and a MSD-6A, which delivers 50kV to the plugs rather than 20kV, recharges faster for better performance at higher RPM, and will deliver multiple sparks at lower RPM. (If I remember things correctly - I'm no expert.) It runs like a charm. Very happy with Bill's work too - highly recommended...

[eurotrash]

Here's what I am using on  my coil Kevin.  Basic parts store action..

 

 

[thehackmechanic]

Kfunk says something interesting:

 

"I'm not sure where you guys have mounted your ignition boxes..."

 

I'm someone who prizes functionality over originality and "correctness," but opening the hood and seeing things that look like they teleported in from the wrong century sometimes rubs me the wrong way. I've steered clear of aluminum radiators in 2002s for this very reason -- to me, they just look wrong in the car.

 

So, to those in the future who stumble across this thread, it may be useful to say that, other than the color of its wires, the Pertonix is discrete. It lives inside your distributor and simply replaces your points and condenser. You can even leave the condenser screwed to the outside of the dizzy. In contrast, more sophisticated ignitions usually  have a good-sized box that looks like a power amplifier with big heat sinks on the side, and that box has to be mounted somewhere. This is not a vote in favor of Pertronix or against hot spark or mega jolt or whatever, but if someone is reading posts and looking for an option that won't scream "I've been modified" whenever the hood is opened, I just thought I'd cast it in that light.

 

--Rob

Edited April 16, 2014 by thehackmechanic

[eurotrash]

Kevin has built a nicely warmed up motor with side drafts.  So, to quote Safet Hatic, a long time tuner of all things BMW, "Today's gas is garbage. Don't let it sit for more than two weeks.. The best thing you can to for your 2002 is have a strong and accurate ignition system."

Edited April 16, 2014 by eurotrash