electrical and ignition 1972 Tii Crankshaft And Camshaft Resistance

[gnarlycreature]

Hey I'm in need of some help...

 

Been searching high and low for resistance numbers for the crankshaft, camshaft, and temperature sensor for my tii.  Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology when searching, but I can't seem to find out the information I need.  My car is starting then dying immediately.  Throttle has no effect on the idle as it dies out.  We have fuel and we have spark, so we are trying to check out the sensors to see if that's causing it to shut down.  

 

Any help is appreciated..

[FB73tii]

Well if you have a stock engine then there are no crankshaft or camshaft position sensors like a modern EFI car would have. And the water temperature sensor only tells the cold start relay when to fire the cold start injector solenoid in the throttle body when starting a cold engine. There is a whole host of simple things to check, but one that comes to mind is that start solenoid relay. When they go bad they stick "on" and will flood the engine after it starts. It is easy to check, just disconnect the wires to that starter injector to disable it, then start the car and see if the problem goes away. If not, it is something else.

 

A few initial questions:

How long will it idle before dying?

How do you know you actually have enough fuel pressure?

How long have you had the car, and was any work done on it just before this problem started?

Do you have a shop manual? If not, you need one as it will answer many of these basic questions. There is the Haynes manual, the BMW Factory manual (available free online if someone will post the link), and a host of other resources.

 

The cold start injector is #12 in the diagram below, and the wiring harness to unplug is #13

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=2583&mospid=47141&btnr=13_0685&hg=13&fg=15

 

Best of luck sorting this out

Fred '74tii and '69 DCOE

Edited August 8, 2013 by FB73tii

[williamggruff]

Where are you located in case someone is available to assist in person?

[gnarlycreature]

Fred,

 

Yes it is the stock motor. We are getting fuel and spark. It is possible there is not enough fuel pressure. We have tried starter fluid upon startup and still get the same result. This is my friends Tii, he has had it since December. He was driving down the road, and it cut out and would not start back up. We have a Clymer Publications Repair Handbook.

 

Link to startup attempt video. http://youtu.be/j9c_BaMQFhA

 

Parts replaced so far:

e28 Fuel Pump

Fuel Canister

Distributor Cap

Rotor

Plug Wires

Spark Plugs

Have been through 3 or 4 tanks of 93 octane fuel.

 

 

 

 

Well if you have a stock engine then there are no crankshaft or camshaft position sensors like a modern EFI car would have. And the water temperature sensor only tells the cold start relay when to fire the cold start injector solenoid in the throttle body when starting a cold engine. There is a whole host of simple things to check, but one that comes to mind is that start solenoid relay. When they go bad they stick "on" and will flood the engine after it starts. It is easy to check, just disconnect the wires to that starter injector to disable it, then start the car and see if the problem goes away. If not, it is something else.

 

A few initial questions:

How long will it idle before dying?

How do you know you actually have enough fuel pressure?

How long have you had the car, and was any work done on it just before this problem started?

Do you have a shop manual? If not, you need one as it will answer many of these basic questions. There is the Haynes manual, the BMW Factory manual (available free online if someone will post the link), and a host of other resources.

 

The cold start injector is #12 in the diagram below, and the wiring harness to unplug is #13

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=2583&mospid=47141&btnr=13_0685&hg=13&fg=15

 

Best of luck sorting this out

Fred '74tii and '69 DCOE

Edited August 8, 2013 by gnarlycreature

[FB73tii]

undo a few bolts on the upper black plastic cover for the injection pump belt, pull it back a bit and look in. The cover is #6 here:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=2583&mospid=47141&btnr=11_2367&hg=11&fg=10

 

Can you see the white Gilmer belt (#1 below), or do you see the teeth of the injector pump sprocket (#4 below)?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=2583&mospid=47141&btnr=13_0682&hg=13&fg=15

 

If it is the latter, the belt broke. Inexpensive part, a bit of work but not too hard to replace. When the belt breaks the cold start solenoid gives a shot of gas to allow it to start, but dies immediately as there is no high pressure fuel from the injection pump.

 

Other than that, there is no reason to suspect the injection pump itself. Perhaps a linkage broke, check all of those to make sure the injector pump lever moves when the gas pedal is pressed. The fact that it died suddenly indicates something broke, or came loose and is out of adjustment (timing?).

 

They say 90% of fuel issues are electrical, so just because things seem to check out, go back over everything twice.

 

Fred   (Broke a Gilmer belt on Hwy 17 in Santa Cruz my '73tii back in about 1987-88. Got it fixed at Catalpa Street Garage. Other than that, over 330,000 miles and a few hundred track days on the KF pump, never rebuilt.)

Edited August 8, 2013 by FB73tii

[allbim]

Make sure there is voltage to the pump and the ignition coil when the starter is not cranking. You may have an faulty ballast resistor (ignition) which is bypassed when the starter is cranking.

[gnarlycreature]

Thanks! We will check both tomorrow. We will definitely let you guys know that outcome!

[gnarlycreature]

Well we got a little antsy and had to check it out, just to be sure. The Gilmer Belt was not much of a Belt anymore.

[FB73tii]

Wow, that belt is toast. Amazing the car ran as long as it did. When my belt broke it appeared to be in fine condition, but just broke clean across, no fraying.

 

Sources for the belt (PN/ 13521259268) include:

Husker BMW (www.bmwmercedesparts.com) = $18.71

RM European (www.rmeuropean.com) = $25.98

 

I have consistently found the best prices on original BMW parts at Husker.

 

EDIT: This thread is related to another thread:

tii won't start ... any ideas? Here's the scoop...
http://www.bmw2002faq.com/topic/3628-tii-wont-start-any-ideas-heres-the-scoop/

 

Glad you got it figured out--Fred

Edited August 8, 2013 by FB73tii

[Get2theBimmah]

Just wanted to bump this thread to say that the Gilmer belt did in fact solve the problem. Thank you so much for all of your help, Fred.  While I had the front end of the engine bay apart I redid the cooling system - coolant flush, new thermostat and water pump.   New bolts and hoses were also on the list as well.  We lined up the crank pulley and the fuel injection gear to their specific markings then placed the belt on.  Very simple and easy job to do.  Car fired right up and is running better than ever.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Get2theBimmah

[FB73tii]

Great, glad to hear the car is fixed, and thanks for the follow-up, always good to hear how things turned out.

 

Best,

Fred