Buying advice needed

[creede]

I've been lurking on the forums here for a while and thinking about buying a 2002. I've finally found one locally that looks to be an all right deal, but I wanted to get some veteran opinions about it.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=&nid=443&tab=list/view&ad=1662637

There is obviously a certain amount of BS in the description and the listed price is way too high. I haven't even gone to look at it yet and I've already gotten him to drop his price to $1800. There are obviously some rust issues, but for the price it looks fairly reasonable.

Thoughts?

BTW, I'm not looking to do a full restoration, but I would like a solid DD that I can slowly fix up and possibly do a couple track days in.

[asvander]

If the rust isn't structural, and it runs well, I would say it is easily worth $1800 I would imagine that car would be $4000+ on ebay.

[dubois]

rust is a big unknown, even at $1800 it can be a risk. There is a reason it is so cheap for a tii. The 02's have such a wide spectrum, the good ones are very expensive, then you could have one for free, and end up costing you more than the first. My advice is if you want a solid track car, buy a CA shell.

[CutteRug]

Well, I've taken a few semesters of collision repair at the local JC in order to fix up the issues on my '75 can of worms.... Rust repair, welding, bodywork... To get things perfect (or even proper but not concourse) is expensive and time consuming...

But...... To get things adequate (for a driver or a track car) is not super difficult...

Those rusted out rear fenders would trouble me deeply. Quarters and roofs are the quintessential not-easily-replaced parts of the car... So unless you're looking to cut out all that rust and slap some fender flares on there, those wheel wells (and whatever lurks beneath) could be pure hell.

On the other hand, that stock salt-n-pepper german loop carpet is worth several hundred alone. To get that new is what - $700 these days? Not that you'd want to part the car out, but if you did, you'd probably have $1800 in parts alone..

I say buy it. Drive it. Love it. Someday, buy a bone-dry California or Nevada squarie shell, and swap all your tii-goodness (and an early tail 'n' nose) onto it and restore it to the "Stella-sphere"...

Just my 02 sense.

[autoaloha]

On the other hand, that stock salt-n-pepper german loop carpet is worth several hundred alone. To get that new is what - $700 these days? Not that you'd want to part the car out, but if you did, you'd probably have $1800 in parts alone..

2nd. $1800 for a running tii with an interior that isn't in tatters is a good deal. learn how to weld and you're set.

[c.d.iesel]

reality check:

yes it's a tii and really magic. tons of 150HP as stated in the ad?

but better check with your states registration inspection laws first

some states willnot permit cars with rust perferation on the road

and the interior is trash - just looks "ok" at a glance

why do you think there's a pile of towels on the drivers seat?

no padding, torn cover, metal spring poking yer prostate

drivers door trim panel has something staring you in the face

it will need interior WORK & MONEY

The body shell is not good, infact toast - BURNT TOAST

lets see whats under the hood and trunk floor boards

$1000 for a car that will sit in your driveway

a long time with little enjoyment because of

the $1,000's it will need to make it SAFE

to drive - nevermind the additional

$1,000"s to make it pretty.

and as M. Kreede states:

......."BTW, I'm not looking to do a full restoration,

but I would like a solid DD that I can slowly fix

up and possibly do a couple track days in""

this is clearly NOT the car that fits your requirements

[thehackmechanic]

c.d.iesel's advice about ability to pass inspection is good. Here in Massachusetts you could not get this car inspected and on the road.

That having been said, go into it with your eyes wide open. If it has fender rust like that, you MUST check for rust at the tops of the rear shock towers, at a bare minimum. I love these non-restored-rat-rods, and early tiis scream if the compression is good and the injection is working right, but unless you know how to weld, if you try to turn it into something it's not, it'll break both your bank and your heart.

[72Golf]

That's a hellova lot of rust showing there and usually there is more hidden than visible. If you go look, research the structual rust areas before you go but my guess is you would be disappointed with the car.

A quick estimate to just do the "cosmetic" work to make it a twenty footer would be $3000 if you can do it yourself and $5,000 if you pay somebody. This is body, trim, interior only. A car that looks like this on the outside is probably as neglected mechanically and Tii repairs aren't cheap nor easy for the average mechanic.

IMHO, you have two choices: Buy it and part it out for whatever you can get, take the money and buy a good one from Cal. that will cost you $8,000-12,000 for a Tii, half that for a base '02.

OR:

Skip it completely and go straight to the good one, it will cost you the same as trying to patch up this POS.

[creede]

Good advice everyone. I'll check it out and see just how extensive the rust is. I assume front fenders aren't too big of a deal to swap out, maybe throw some pig cheek fenders on. I gather from some of the comments that replacing/repairing rear fenders is a much bigger deal. Maybe I would be better off with holding out for clean roller.

[auggiemize]

Can you store it inside in the dry?

Are you happily married?

Do you have children?

Do you have a rock solid job with extra money each month?

Can you weld?

Do you love your dog? Just checking..character analysis thing..

Just a few things to ask yourself....

If you can keep it dry inside and have some extra money each month and a regular daily car, then I'd buy it, because worst case you can get your money back after your wife makes you get rid of it in three years. If its dry, the rust will not recede, but it wont proceed much either. If it's outside, and has that amount of rust, things will go south VERY fast. Even covered, rust knows that it's outside. Outside moisture is the Miracle-gro of Fe02. While we are offering opinions, I would buy a dry square-tail for about $4K and you will come closer to what you sounded like you wanted. If you are married, she will think it's cute, even if it doesnt run, But not if there are rust holes. And your toddler will not need tetanus shots. As to welding...If I knew how to weld, I could justify bringing home almost any fender-flopping POS, and I would. I think of all of the time and money that I have saved by not learning that false economy of labor. Everybody that I know that can weld has huge mountainous chunks of unloved cars all over the back yard. And in the garage. And the basement. And spiders. And some snakes.

Just kidding. I will learn to weld; I just got on a roll there, and my wife came in and wanted to see what I was doing instead of working....Good luck with what ever you do; just remember that experience can be learned, passion cannot. Dave V. in NC

[BarryA]

... I assume front fenders aren't too big of a deal to swap out, maybe throw some pig cheek fenders on. I gather from some of the comments that replacing/repairing rear fenders is a much bigger deal. .....

filling the seam between the nose and fender that was leaded in from the factory), but significant rust can be hiding in the inner fender & nose structure and the closing panels just ahead of the doors.

Everything aft of the doors (except the trunk lid, obviously) is welded in place, so panel replacments and rust repairs are a process of cutting away the bad and welding in new, good material. Unfortunately, it's common to find that rust extends quite a bit farther than what's visible before one starts cutting, and getting into repair and replacement of structural members like rocker panels, shock towers & trunk floors has to be done properly or the structural integrity of the body (as well as proper panel alignment) can be severely compromised.

Wouldn't want to talk anyone out of saving a worthy car (especially a tii roundie), but the various comments about time, money and stress on your marriage / relationships are definately worth factoring into your decision.

[ArdenK]

Damn, Provo is too far away for me and I really don't need another car. $1800 SEEMS like a good deal if it is running, it really depends on the extent of the rust. Can you do the rust repairs? cutting, welding, finishing? If not it's going to get expensive.

Good luck!

[jgerock]

Arden - just how many 2002's are you going to accumulate before your wife notices??? Your signature seems to change on a monthly basis.

[creede]

Can you store it inside in the dry?

Are you happily married?

Do you have children?

Do you have a rock solid job with extra money each month?

Can you weld?

Do you love your dog? Just checking..character analysis thing..

Just a few things to ask yourself....

If you can keep it dry inside and have some extra money each month and a regular daily car, then I'd buy it, because worst case you can get your money back after your wife makes you get rid of it in three years. If its dry, the rust will not recede, but it wont proceed much either. If it's outside, and has that amount of rust, things will go south VERY fast. Even covered, rust knows that it's outside. Outside moisture is the Miracle-gro of Fe02. While we are offering opinions, I would buy a dry square-tail for about $4K and you will come closer to what you sounded like you wanted. If you are married, she will think it's cute, even if it doesnt run, But not if there are rust holes. And your toddler will not need tetanus shots. As to welding...If I knew how to weld, I could justify bringing home almost any fender-flopping POS, and I would. I think of all of the time and money that I have saved by not learning that false economy of labor. Everybody that I know that can weld has huge mountainous chunks of unloved cars all over the back yard. And in the garage. And the basement. And spiders. And some snakes.

Just kidding. I will learn to weld; I just got on a roll there, and my wife came in and wanted to see what I was doing instead of working....Good luck with what ever you do; just remember that experience can be learned, passion cannot. Dave V. in NC

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

No

Yes

Honestly I think I could do anything but a lot of welding. I had hoped that if I found a car like this it would be doable to swap fenders out for some fiberglass pig cheeks, but now I'm starting to question if that is beyond my abilities. I really don't need/want a tii as I have dreams of doing an engine swap. I may have to go look at it and get a feel for things.

Maybe I'll buy a welder instead and spend the winter practicing for when I do actually get a 2002.

[Darryl]

I just bought my first 2002 in Sacramento CA and had it shipped to MN… I looked for about a year and was finally in the position to buy… The car I bought has no rust and the original paint is in great condition… The interior needs work and will cost me a couple thousand for parts and some labor… Start with a rust free car if you can… I looked at about a ½ dozen MN cars and the amount of work needed was a bit overwhelming… Body work done right is really expensive even if you do it yourself… Some replacement panels are expensive, nuts and bolts will be rusted, and basically anything you work on will likely need to be replaced… IMHO I think a rusty car will nickel and dime you to death… BTW, cost to ship from Northern CA to MN, 700 bucks...