tires and wheels '75 turbo for sale at 2002ad

[johns1974]

"VIN 4209559, 5-speed CR trans, only 64,400 miles. All original except for BBS 3-pc wheels. Really excellent condition, cosmetically and mechanically. $46,000"

pix on their site

with the prices of tii's and even really clean regular '02s approaching $30k, doesn't this seem reasonable?

Not mine, no affiliation... never even seen a turbo in real life!! (Hope to someday!)

Please excuse my ignorance, but are the turbos "that much" faster/better than the tii's? Are they a bear to maintain in great running order? Curious in learning more...

[c.d.iesel]

the turbo charger with no water or oil cooling are krap -

like the first generation of SAAB 99/900 turbos.

just a trickle of oil to lube the turbo bearings

cooks the motor oil fast. Very short life for the turbo.

The rest of the car is as like a tii - the bomb. ( a good bomb)

[WH]

"VIN 4209559, 5-speed CR trans, only 64,400 miles. All original except for BBS 3-pc wheels. Really excellent condition, cosmetically and mechanically. $46,000"

pix on their site

with the prices of tii's and even really clean regular '02s approaching $30k, doesn't this seem reasonable?

Not mine, no affiliation... never even seen a turbo in real life!! (Hope to someday!)

Please excuse my ignorance, but are the turbos "that much" faster/better than the tii's? Are they a bear to maintain in great running order? Curious in learning more...

I hate to ask this... but does anyone have any links to BMW 2002tii's or any std 2002's sold on the net or other places for close to or over $30,000? I have see one or two sellers asking that much or more (considering their "restoration" costs where more), but no confirmed sales. Seems most 2002's sell under $15,000 still.

As for a $46K turbo. I wish them luck in the sale. Seems a bit on the optimistic side to me.

WH

[m-racer]

"VIN 4209559, 5-speed CR trans, only 64,400 miles. All original except for BBS 3-pc wheels. Really excellent condition, cosmetically and mechanically. $46,000"

pix on their site

with the prices of tii's and even really clean regular '02s approaching $30k, doesn't this seem reasonable?

Not mine, no affiliation... never even seen a turbo in real life!! (Hope to someday!)

Please excuse my ignorance, but are the turbos "that much" faster/better than the tii's? Are they a bear to maintain in great running order? Curious in learning more...

I hate to ask this... but does anyone have any links to BMW 2002tii's or any std 2002's sold on the net or other places for close to or over $30,000? I have see one or two sellers asking that much or more (considering their "restoration" costs where more), but no confirmed sales. Seems most 2002's sell under $15,000 still.

As for a $46K turbo. I wish them luck in the sale. Seems a bit on the optimistic side to me.

WH

I sold an s14 equipped car (Roundel cover car in 02) for 39.5k and a restored zender flared 74 with a stg2 engine and a bunch of fairly rare Alpina bits for 28k in the last 24 months. No profit taken, but the prices did cover what I had in the cars. Hope that helps.

[alp]

look at the sold vehicles on the AD site and see what the asking prices were!

[WH]

look at the sold vehicles on the AD site and see what the asking prices were!

I'm sorry but I want confirmed public sale prices, not asking prices or reports of private sales, simply because they cannot be confirmed. I know for a fact that asking and getting can be two completely different things. I've purchased cars before for 1/2 the asking prices with just a little haggling. It depends upon the local market, how bad the seller wishes to sell and how good you are at buying. What I want is confirmed public sales of stock 2002's and tii's in number 1 or 2 condition. I have not seen a tii go for close to $30,000. I just want someone to show me 5-10 public sales to confirm this.

2002AD is not the typical street sale prices. They are asking what I think are quite high retail prices. I can easily offer some of my cars for sale for twice what I think they are worth and wait to see if they sell. That doesn't mean I would ever find a buyer at that market level. Ebay too isn't reliable either as many cars that sell actually don't sell for the prices bid. I've seen so many ads over the years of owners testing the market and later bragging about how they where shill bidding their own cars on BB's to raise the value for insurance purposes or just to test the market to see if they can find an uneducated buyer. I've seen too many cars sell and then not sell on ebay (to be re-listed later) to use those prices as confirmed sales. They can be used as a guideline, but not definite market prices.

Forgive my skepisim about people just throwing out the going prices of $30K and higher for tii sales, but I've sold and purchased quite a few cars over the years and I guess to me I just don't see a huge market to sell a $30,000 2002tii in. For $30,000 you can buy many other types of cars much more highly sought after than a 2002. That's solid early Porsche 911 territory or even a very decent 356 coupe range. It's even getting close to Ferrari prices. You can get a pretty nice 308 for $35K, a good but not great Testarossa can be had for $40-$50K. For that matter many nice muscle cars can be had for $30K or less in the current market. I've seen the prices of AAR cuda's drop recently down to almost $50K!. That's getting very inexpensive compared to the $150K prices a year ago!

WH

[m-racer]

look at the sold vehicles on the AD site and see what the asking prices were!

I'm sorry but I want confirmed public sale prices, not asking prices or reports of private sales, simply because they cannot be confirmed. I know for a fact that asking and getting can be two completely different things. I've purchased cars before for 1/2 the asking prices with just a little haggling. It depends upon the local market, how bad the seller wishes to sell and how good you are at buying. What I want is confirmed public sales of stock 2002's and tii's in number 1 or 2 condition. I have not seen a tii go for close to $30,000. I just want someone to show me 5-10 public sales to confirm this.

2002AD is not the typical street sale prices. They are asking what I think are quite high retail prices. I can easily offer some of my cars for sale for twice what I think they are worth and wait to see if they sell. That doesn't mean I would ever find a buyer at that market level. Ebay too isn't reliable either as many cars that sell actually don't sell for the prices bid. I've seen so many ads over the years of owners testing the market and later bragging about how they where shill bidding their own cars on BB's to raise the value for insurance purposes or just to test the market to see if they can find an uneducated buyer. I've seen too many cars sell and then not sell on ebay (to be re-listed later) to use those prices as confirmed sales. They can be used as a guideline, but not definite market prices.

Forgive my skepisim about people just throwing out the going prices of $30K and higher for tii sales, but I've sold and purchased quite a few cars over the years and I guess to me I just don't see a huge market to sell a $30,000 2002tii in. For $30,000 you can buy many other types of cars much more highly sought after than a 2002. That's solid early Porsche 911 territory or even a very decent 356 coupe range. It's even getting close to Ferrari prices. You can get a pretty nice 308 for $35K, a good but not great Testarossa can be had for $40-$50K. For that matter many nice muscle cars can be had for $30K or less in the current market. I've seen the prices of AAR cuda's drop recently down to almost $50K!. That's getting very inexpensive compared to the $150K prices a year ago!

WH

Most of the exceptional cars are sold privately. Throwing those sales out of the mix would seem to affect the average significantly. If by cannot be confirmed, you are questioning the numbers I posted then I am sure you know what you can do with that! I have read your posts before questioning 2002 values, turbos in particular. Seems you have a stong opinion concerning their value as compared to other cars. You can argue that until you are blue in the face as there are lots of interesting cars to be had in the over 30k range. That, however does not change that others (with the money to back it up) do not agree with you. I have been looking for the right 2002 for a while and the value of substitutes for my money do not come into play. Simply put, I am shopping for a 2002 (albiet a specific type) and could care less about the other cars I could have for the same amt. of money. 2002 values are continuing to rise. That is also the case for E30 M3's and you can argue their value vs. muscle cars and the like as well but it does not change the price curve.

[Ray-2002tii]

With 2002AD's reputation, even if you but that car and pay for it, it will be months before you actually receive the car......then it will be the wrong car!

[alp]

I would agree that their prices are bloated.

[WH]

I would agree that their prices are bloated.

It seems I am not the only one that thinks some ads post high retail prices!

As for confirmed private sales, yes there are only 2 people who really know what a private sale goes for, the seller and the buyer. There are many out there that always brag about their high sales, but it's impossible to verify it. (not that I'm doubting everyone that says what they sell a car for, I just know many like to embellish their selling prices, or the buyer bragging he got a great deal, when he didn't). People do not always tell the truth on what they pay or sell as they always like to look better in the eyes of their customers or friends.

As for comparing 2002's to other makes of cars for sale, Yes I do think this is a viable comparison being if the prices of one car get too high, prospective buyers start to look for alternatives to other makes, models of cars to own. Probably one of the reasons BMW's have started to rise in value the past year could be due to the fact Porsche prices have risen dramatically in the last 3, also VW and Mercedes as risen as well. Many people that may wish to have a early 911 now find that they don't have the money to get a good car, so look for alternative cars of the same country and era, hence 2002's are more in demand. As for comparing muscle cars to BMW's, yes they are different rides, but many would be owners do look at all possible cars to own in that price range before they pull the trigger. I for one do. There is little reason to buy a $30,000 BMW 2002tii when I can buy a nice 1970 Plymouth 340 cuda, S3-S4 Lotus Elan, early Porsche 911 or even a fairly priced 356, etc, etc for the same money. Thirty thousand dollars is A LOT of money, you can buy 100's of different kinds of vintage cars in that range, and many of them have a much better chance of gaining value in the American market than the BMW and so are a much better buy. I can still find very nice 2002's in the mid teens, why would I pay twice what I need too? Maybe not everyone looks at cars as I do, and just buy their childhood dream not thinking about selling the car in 2-10 years. I don't, because I value my $ and know some day I will need to resell the car, We all do unless we die first! As Warren Buffett says "Buy low sell high!".

WH

[m-racer]

I would agree that their prices are bloated.

It seems I am not the only one that thinks some ads post high retail prices!

As for confirmed private sales, yes there are only 2 people who really know what a private sale goes for, the seller and the buyer. There are many out there that always brag about their high sales, but it's impossible to verify it. (not that I'm doubting everyone that says what they sell a car for, I just know many like to embellish their selling prices, or the buyer bragging he got a great deal, when he didn't). People do not always tell the truth on what they pay or sell as they always like to look better in the eyes of their customers or friends.

As for comparing 2002's to other makes of cars for sale, Yes I do think this is a viable comparison being if the prices of one car get too high, prospective buyers start to look for alternatives to other makes, models of cars to own. Probably one of the reasons BMW's have started to rise in value the past year could be due to the fact Porsche prices have risen dramatically in the last 3, also VW and Mercedes as risen as well. Many people that may wish to have a early 911 now find that they don't have the money to get a good car, so look for alternative cars of the same country and era, hence 2002's are more in demand. As for comparing muscle cars to BMW's, yes they are different rides, but many would be owners do look at all possible cars to own in that price range before they pull the trigger. I for one do. There is little reason to buy a $30,000 BMW 2002tii when I can buy a nice 1970 Plymouth 340 cuda, S3-S4 Lotus Elan, early Porsche 911 or even a fairly priced 356, etc, etc for the same money. Thirty thousand dollars is A LOT of money, you can buy 100's of different kinds of vintage cars in that range, and many of them have a much better chance of gaining value in the American market than the BMW and so are a much better buy. I can still find very nice 2002's in the mid teens, why would I pay twice what I need too? Maybe not everyone looks at cars as I do, and just buy their childhood dream not thinking about selling the car in 2-10 years. I don't, because I value my $ and know some day I will need to resell the car, We all do unless we die first! As Warren Buffett says "Buy low sell high!".

WH

You certainly have a right to that opinion and for you I am sure your logic is completely in sync with how you approach the market. It is not however in sync for my logic. I am not a Cuda guy or a Ferrari guy or a Porsche guy (although I have owned quite a few), or a British car guy. I drive BMW's. I have owned a lot of them and they are my marque of choice. Therefore, I have no interest in the other cars you mention. I also do not approach cars as an investment so that is not part of my logic. There is no comprehensive data base of what 2002's have sold for, so I am afraid the data you seek is not there. There also seems to be no organized effort to create such data. There are good analogs on how that can be done. There is for example, a permanent thread at mye28.com in the M5 section on M5 prices, and although the numbers are not sworn to under oath, my guess is they are fairly accurate. The anecdotal evidence is that exceptional 2002's will continue to increase in value. I also think that applies to E30 M3's, Euro M5's and the like. So there you go. As in any non-commodity market, buying behavior, substitution, and choice varies widely.

[WH]

]You certainly have a right to that opinion and for you I am sure your logic is completely in sync with how you approach the market. It is not however in sync for my logic. I am not a Cuda guy or a Ferrari guy or a Porsche guy (although I have owned quite a few), or a British car guy. I drive BMW's. I have owned a lot of them and they are my marque of choice. Therefore, I have no interest in the other cars you mention. I also do not approach cars as an investment so that is not part of my logic. There is no comprehensive data base of what 2002's have sold for, so I am afraid the data you seek is not there. There also seems to be no organized effort to create such data. There are good analogs on how that can be done. There is for example, a permanent thread at mye28.com in the M5 section on M5 prices, and although the numbers are not sworn to under oath, my guess is they are fairly accurate. The anecdotal evidence is that exceptional 2002's will continue to increase in value. I also think that applies to E30 M3's, Euro M5's and the like. So there you go. As in any non-commodity market, buying behavior, substitution, and choice varies widely.

I agree there is no 100% accurate database available for sales of many cars, BMW's included. I do use the sports car market newsletter as a reference being they have data available on just about all cars that go through auctions now, BMW 2002's included. So it seems as good a source as any. Even though I own like 12 BMW's, they are not my marque of choice being I mainly look at them as drivers and of course occasional show cars (when I attend BMW events which is getting less and less).

I have found in the past 30 years of car ownership many rides of different marques that have more appeal to me than BMW. British, Italian are pretty much top of my list, that includes Alfa's, Ferrari, Healeys, Jags,MG, Triumph etc. I also have see the lust and logic of muscle cars and their wide appeal in the American collector car market. For years I ignored them as archaic American icons that weren't worth my time, but I've learned from my folly as these cars are unique and sought after and loved by a wide range of people! I will admit my Barracuda gets more looks than my AC cobra, Testarossa or pretty much any car I own. My BMW's by comparison are ignored by the public even though they are much rarer. I hardly ever got a look driving my 2002 or Alpinas, but the Barracuda everyone stops and stares! That tells me a lot about how others view my rides. Yes, I do look at my cars as investments, as I look at just about everything I do, buy or own as an investment of time, money or both. I enjoy every car I have, but the BMW's are the ones that are probably going on the block in the next years. I need the space and they just don't seem to be increasing in value as fast as other cars I own.

WH

[jgerock]

Here's my unfortunate experience dealing with 2002AD:

Found a 74tii on their website. Called and gave my CC# with deposit to hold the car. Flew to CA and test drove the car (along with others). Car was not worth the asking price and needed work. Contacted another tii owner (advertising thru 2002AD) and found the mark-up from 2002AD was about $ 2K. Deal didn't happen due to questionable payment method. Took several months to get my deposit on the original car back.

My advice:

Don't believe anything you see on the internet regarding pictures. Always check a vehicle out in person and deal with the actual seller (if available) and not a broker. Try to purchase a BMW from another Club member (which I did).

[WH]

Here's my unfortunate experience dealing with 2002AD:

Found a 74tii on their website. Called and gave my CC# with deposit to hold the car. Flew to CA and test drove the car (along with others). Car was not worth the asking price and needed work. Contacted another tii owner (advertising thru 2002AD) and found the mark-up from 2002AD was about $ 2K. Deal didn't happen due to questionable payment method. Took several months to get my deposit on the original car back.

My advice:

Don't believe anything you see on the internet regarding pictures. Always check a vehicle out in person and deal with the actual seller (if available) and not a broker. Try to purchase a BMW from another Club member (which I did).

That's a sad story...... but not totally unsuspected. They after all are a dealer, either selling their cars or consigning cars from customers. Just about every car looks better in pictures than in person, most sellers either don't know or won't disclose all problems with cars being sold. Dealers typically are the worst at this, being either they don't have the time to inspect the cars offered or don't care. Many of course try to pull a fast one on unsuspecting buyers. As for 2002AD, I have no history of dealing with them being their prices listed are I think quite high for what they sell. This is mainly due to the market they are in (California) and the disposable income many down there have, compared to where I live. I think they also prey on out of staters looking for a rust free example, so ask high prices hoping for a sale.

I have bought about 5 cars sight unseen, 2 from overseas both of which where good cars but had more issues than I realized, but were still ok buys. I would agree, if you want a car in the USA off the net, it's worth the price of a plane ticket to inspect it personally. Buying from an enthusiast can be a way of getting a better car, but you may also pay much more for it. I find that many 2002 sellers are great enthusiasts but not good mechanics or car restorers, so even buying from a club member you still have to watch out for poorly restored cars and many with mechanical and cosmetic issues. It seems many 2002 owners overlook these things when buying and purchase off emotion rather than intelligence!

WH