Kugelfischer / turbo question

[grmnclassic]

Searched but did not find a definitive answer. I am looking into whether or not the stock tii pump will be able to be tuned to handle the demands of a small turbo. Maybe 8psi with an intercooler. Possibly from a saab 900. I know the bosch mechanical pumps would work because they could be richened up pretty good. I would need to find one for a 4 cyl.

I am trying to gain some power on the cheap and I don't want to go the full EFI and M20 swap. Not to mention I like the vintage oldschool way of doing this. I don't want to make a monster.

Thanks for the input!!!!

[Jack]

When Korman rebuilt my turbo motor we converted to the Garrett T03 as it was generally viewed as the ultimate driveability mod. After Hans tried to remap the k-pump five times with dyno after each he finally contacte his olf friend the long retired engineer who worked on the turbo project. His assesment was an emphatic "no-way". We ended up going to a 5th injector with a dedicated fuel pump controlled by an HKS unit tied to boost and rpm. Running 8-8.5# and IC'd. About 190-200 hp. Sweet drive!

[c.d.iesel]

....and while your looking for power and speed

on the cheep - you will (if your ever do get it running

fast up the road) need EXCELLENT BRAKES to slow

the thing back to a stop. Stopping & steering

must be matched to the power and speed.

[peteinjp]

Why not find the injection from the same saab. That would be way cheaper and easier than the kugel.

[c.d.iesel]

.....because the early Turbo SAAB 99 was BOSCH cis

injection with fuel distributor, warm-up pressure regulator,

temp sensor, ECU, frequency valve, O2 sensor,

relays, vac advance/boost retard distributor - might as well

just buy a 900 SAAB SPG ! = hardly, but close to 'old school'

when compared to today's turbotronics.

I think for the 'on the cheep hack' methodology - a simple super

charger fits the bill.

[Tangarine-Dream]

And while we are on the subject of the Kugelfisher...what about (future project) a 292 cam, 10:1 pistons, titanium single springs, ss vavles, ss header, etc. Can I still use and adjust the Kugelfisher to accomodate the changes?? And have it run correctly? I will not remove it so I may have to use other factory type mods. I'm not essentially looking for a race care but perhaps a few more hp without sacraficing too much MPG. Just curious....thanks!

[dubois]

I am trying to gain some power on the cheap and I don't want to go the full EFI and M20 swap. Not to mention I like the vintage oldschool way of doing this. I don't want to make a monster.

Thanks for the input!!!!

It is possible, but like others have said, yourself included you won't build a monster. You can probably jerry rig something to supply enough fuel, but only the correct fuel in a narrow band. Most people won't be happy with that. But if you mostly live between 5K or 6K, or any other 1000 rpm range, you can certainly do it - it won't be a smooth ride, but once you get to the sweet spot, probably a hell of ride. Nothing wrong with cheap fun.

You probably need some type of servo system to enrich when boost- much like the original 02 turbos - which I don't know anything about them, some may want to pipe in to explain how BMW set up theirs.

[g_force]

I think the only way you could get a K-fish to work well with a turbo is with a re-mapped fuel cone ($$$). You can rig the warm-up fuel enrichment arm to move with throttle position for an imprecise fuel adder, but it's probably real difficult to get right.

I think your best bet is a 5th injector and electronic controller. If you stay with low boost, it should work OK. The 5th injector has an issue with not distributing fuel evenly between cylinders - an issue that becomes more of problem at more extreme conditions. Althought I have no personal expereicne on a tii engine, 5th injectors were used by many respected tuners in the 80s for 6-8psi turbo jobs (including 320i turbos).

[Tangarine-Dream]

Sorry about the alt. question. Found what I wanted in the Search Archives. Thanks all.

[_z_]

Here's an exchange I had with Wes Ingram about how he alters the KF pump to match engine needs:

Question:

Hello

There has been a lot of questions among bwm 2002 tii owners about the best way to upgrade the stock m10+KF system -- cams, intakes etc. The debate always boils down to if the stock KF can be matched with various engine upgrades, how to do it etc.

I've been sending them to your site as you are the only person I know that does this kind of thing. I was thinking it would be valuable to us Tiiers if you could put together a page or two about what is involved in the upgraded pump, what engine modifications can be made to match your upgraded pump -- that kind of thing.

I don't know if you need the business, but there are quite a few bmw owners who might want your services -- especially if there was a fairly clear roadmap in terms of parts, what to do, etc.

Even a short synopsis that I could post would help a lot

thanks !!

-Zachary in Oregon

-----------

Response

Hi Zachary,

The tii hp kit we install is very simple. This will correct the air/fuel ratio on modified tii engines. Bigger cams require a non-linear fuel increase above 4000 rpm. Adjusting the Grub screw on the pump for more fuel will create a linear fuel increase which will reduce power at the low and mid range. We install a hand made link to the pump throttle lever that acts on the Grub shaft which is externally adjustable with small shims. All of our pumps are bench tested at various throttle positions and engine speeds. We calibrate our pumps to less than 1/2 of 1% differential between cylinders.

We have been so busy with other mechanical pump projects and racing that we never seem to find time to advertise our services to the tii folks. But we have a high regard for the KF pump and we have done a good number of stock and hp units. So please let your friends know about us. Some day we will add a page on our site http://www.wesingram.com.

Thanks,

Wes Ingram

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So if you want to use the KF you might have to have someone like Wes tune it to your fuel/air needs.

Or try to rig the grub screw trick yourself!

[grmnclassic]

The fifth injector seems like a very good option. I assume near the throttle body would be good. I have spare injectors laying around. Would I only need to tie it to an electric fuel pump??? or will it be ok to put it in line with the factory hard fuel line??? the fuel delivery is being handled by a new factory e30 fuel pump at the moment.

Also if I was to go to a supercharger as some have recommended what would be the fuel scenerio? A good guess would be that since the supercharger does not have the lag associated with the turbo, the fuel delivery in regard to rpm range would not be near the factor. would 1 or 2 constant running injectors to the plenum be safe? How about setting up the injectors to an electric fuel pump that could be turned on or off as the need arises. say for warm up and to shut the engine off. That sems like issues like flooding the engine could be avoided.

Does anyone know of a supercharger that might be available through the bonyards?? Maybe the eaton from the 90s v6 tbirds or maybe a used one from the new mini??

Just a few thoughts. I dont know too much about forced induction. Sorry if the scenerios are a bit of nonsense.

[_z_]

you could always wire the cold start injector to run when in boost or something like that. Its already plumbed in and has fuel to it

[grmnclassic]

you could always wire the cold start injector to run when in boost or something like that. Its already plumbed in and has fuel to it

Now thats an idea!!! Do you know what parts I wuld need in order to do that??

[_z_]

heh you could put a pressure switch at the bottom of your gas pedal so when you stomp on it hard the cold start circuit is completed and it squirts.. thats about as road warrior as you can get dude

[grmnclassic]

heh you could put a pressure switch at the bottom of your gas pedal so when you stomp on it hard the cold start circuit is completed and it squirts.. thats about as road warrior as you can get dude

MAN!!!!! That seems to be the solution to my problem. PRIMITIVE BUT EFFECTIVE. Now will my engine have enough fuel or will blow like all the bombs and cars in roadwarrior???? I really like your idea Z!!! Now thats getting the noodles working brotha!!! Now timer to start looking on ebay for a Supercharger and getting my friend to work his cnc magic for a drive pulley.