2002 Base Engine Vs 2002 Tii Engine

[dvella98]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm looking at 2 cars which I'm currently interested and ready to pull the trigger on one, however not quite sure which yet. Both are 2002 Tii models both of which have webers, not fuel injected. With the only difference is that, at some point in time, one of them, its engine was swapped with a base 2002 model and not of a Tii. Is there any difference between both engines, performance wise?

 

Having said that, the one with the 2002 Tii engine was originally delivered to the USA. Does that make any difference?

 

Cheers

[Rodolfo Lasparri]

Compression on stock Tii's here in the US are 9.0:1 - A standard 02 motor is 8.5:1.

 

If the real Tii motor is numbers matching, it could be reset to a Tii with all the Injection parts added. Hard to say what your Weber motor is HP wise - but a stock Tii motor is 130hp.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Rodolfo Lasparri
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[dlacey]

agree with @Rodolfo Lasparri, the 'matching numbers' block adds value (all other factors being equal), the tii block is slightly different to the carburettor car block (extra oil drain port for injection), so it would be the best base for any conversion back to original spec if that were important to you.

[dvella98]

7 hours ago, dlacey said:

agree with @Rodolfo Lasparri, the 'matching numbers' block adds value (all other factors being equal), the tii block is slightly different to the carburettor car block (extra oil drain port for injection), so it would be the best base for any conversion back to original spec if that were important to you.

 

Dually noted both and thanks for your help. I intend to create a 2002 Turbo Tribute, considering both options, which would be the best as the starting point?

[dlacey]

52 minutes ago, dvella98 said:

I intend to create a 2002 Turbo Tribute,

The best option would be EFI and an intercooled turbo, in which case the standard carb engine is a good starting point (lower compression a plus for the turbo). If you wanna clone the original MFI turbo then the the tii block is a must.

[dvella98]

1 hour ago, dlacey said:

The best option would be EFI and an intercooled turbo, in which case the standard carb engine is a good starting point (lower compression a plus for the turbo). If you wanna clone the original MFI turbo then the the tii block is a must.

So the original turbo engines were Tii?

[dlacey]

5 minutes ago, dvella98 said:

So the original turbo engines were Tii?

They are based around the tii block and induction system, the head is machined to create a large 'hemi' combustion chamber, pistons a dished design to give 6.9:1 compression (very low). Cam is standard, crank is standard. Injection pump is similar to tii but instead of responding to engine speed, it responds to manifold pressure (similar to that used on the Porsche turbos).

[Conserv]

And simply as an FYI — and not to dissuade you from your goal — a numbers-matching tii (broad market) is generally worth far more than a turbo tribute (narrow market). If a turbo tribute is your goal, either:

 

1. Buy the example missing its tii engine, or

 

2. Buy the example with its tii engine, store the tii engine, and build your turbo with a non-tii block.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

[dvella98]

Both cars I'm looking at have the turbo style kit already installed, so both have been heavily modified. The asking price for either is also very similar. Seller is asking around 25,000 Euros each. What are your thoughts? 

[Conserv]

4 hours ago, dlacey said:

… If you wanna clone the original MFI turbo then the the tii block is a must…

 

Dave,

 

Why is this? If it’s simply for the Kugelfischer’s oil drain port, lots of non-tii blocks have been easily converted to tii blocks… And you’re probably not sticking with the tii’s 9.0 or 9.5 compression ratio anyway.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

[dvella98]

Just now, Conserv said:

Dave,

 

Why is this? If it’s simply for the Kugelfischer’s oil drain port, lots of non-tii blocks have been easily converted to tii blocks… And you’re probably not sticking with the tii’s 9.0 or 9.5 compression ratio anyway.

 

Best regards,

 

Steve

 

Not sure I follow. What are you referring by "why is this"? The price?

[Conserv]

49 minutes ago, dvella98 said:

Not sure I follow. What are you referring by "why is this"? The price?

I’m asking @dlacey (the other Dave) why he believes a tii block is essential. Mind you, @dlacey is a factory turbo owner, so he knows a lot about factory turbos!

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[dvella98]

Just now, Conserv said:

Asking @dlacey (that Dave) why he believes a tii block is essential.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Ahhhh okay, I'm a dave too that why🤣

[Conserv]

8 minutes ago, dvella98 said:

Both cars I'm looking at have the turbo style kit already installed, so both have been heavily modified. The asking price for either is also very similar. Seller is asking around 25,000 Euros each. What are your thoughts? 

Pick the one with the least rust! And the fewest signs of dodgy repairs.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

[dvella98]

Just now, Conserv said:

Pick the one with the least rust! And the fewest signs of dodgy repairs.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

 

Certainly. Are there any spots in particular which these vehicles tend to suffer from?