Where to distributor parts?

[Bibm5]

I popped the pertronix in the 084 distributor last night and dropped it in and got it running and got timing as close as possible based on sound and throttle response. I need to get a white paint pen to make a visible timing mark on the crank pulley before I can get it any better. The car feels more responsive than it was before but has a small amount of stumbling under full throttle and a little popping on decel along with a horrible idle. Almost seems like its running on 3 cylinders. I have a new set of plug wires to put on this evening and will probably do a valve adjustment at the same time (should have done it yesterday while valve cover was off)...
Next project is definitely fresh exhaust with an o2 sensor installed because I really need to dial in my 38/38. That could very well be contributing to poor running conditions.
Oh, should I keep the old blue coil on the car or swap to the silver that came on the parts car (where this dizzy came from)?

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['76mintgrün'02]

12 minutes ago, Bibm5 said:

I need to get a white paint pen to make a visible timing mark on the crank pulley before I can get it any better.

 

Or paint the BB and OT line on the flywheel (my preference).

 

Either way, once that's done you can have some fun with your dad's timing light.

Let it tell you what this distributor has to offer.

Things like total advance and advance at idle.

Add a few points in between and you're looking at the advance curve.

 

[Bibm5]

For the flywheel markings. You are referring to the hole in the top of the bellhousing right behind the starter right? It was kind of a pain to see down in there and this was all I can make out while using the inspection camera...

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['76mintgrün'02]

On 3/12/2019 at 11:54 AM, Bibm5 said:

For the flywheel markings. You are referring to the hole in the top of the bellhousing right behind the starter right?

 

That's your huckleberry!  Or, at least I think that's the BB.  Cleaning it and adding a drip of white paint makes seeing it under the light much easier.  Do the OT line too, to mark TDC.  That is the line you will use to check timing at idle and stuff.

 

How does the eBay 084 look?  Did  you peek under the points plates and lube them up?

 

How much axial play in the shaft?

 

Have you played with that variable light yet?

 

What is the total advance?

Advance at idle?

At what rpm does the timing mark start to move?

[Dudeland]

Playing with timing myself.   I haven't integrated it, but if you want to see what it looks like (more or less) in 3d.  Hold on to your socks !! (lol).  123 dizzy with a standard curve. 

 

 

 

Smoothed out by the application

 

 

 

[Bibm5]

Unfortunately I have not had a chance to dial in the timing with the light yet. I have just been swamped with life and other vehicle & skidsteer repairs.
I did pick up a white paint marker for timing marks so I guess that's some progress.
The new distributor came in and has the same amount of up and down play as the other unfortunately. I haven't pulled the points plate out yet and I can't get vacuum pod to move when I suck on it which sucks because the current pod doesn't move either.
I noticed the brake master cylinder is leaking so that's pretty high on list now.



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['76mintgrün'02]

When you say the pod does not move, is it still connected to the points plate?

 

I've never seen a frozen pod.  Frozen points plates are common though.

 

There are three little plastic nubs on the underside of the top plate that separate the two halves.

Careful not to lose those when you separate the plates for cleaning and lubrication.  They don't really fall out, but are easy to knock out.

 

Points plates that are binding are actually a good thing, compared to ones that have gotten overly sloppy.

 

Here are some prior to cleaning them up

Edited March 24, 2019 by '76mintgrün'02

['76mintgrün'02]

That vertical play is just because the fiber washer is gone, inside the distributor.  You can look to see if the one on top of the gear is still there.  As mentioned, they are a buck or two each and easy to come by online.  Drilling the pin and punching it out is not that big of a deal.  Once it is opened up, you don't really have to take everything apart.  Just clean it out and lube it and shim it back to within tolerance, with two new fiber washers and you will be good to go.  Barring any other problems.

[Simeon]

5 hours ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

That vertical play is just because the fiber washer is gone, inside the distributor.  You can look to see if the one on top of the gear is still there.  As mentioned, they are a buck or two each and easy to come by online.  Drilling the pin and punching it out is not that big of a deal.  Once it is opened up, you don't really have to take everything apart.  Just clean it out and lube it and shim it back to within tolerance, with two new fiber washers and you will be good to go.  Barring any other problems.

 

Tom,

 

Beyond the fibre (fiber) washers, what actually wears on the distributor? The drive gears seem pretty long lived, what about the bearings/ bushes?

['76mintgrün'02]

2 hours ago, Simeon said:

Beyond the fibre (fiber) washers, what actually wears on the distributor? The drive gears seem pretty long lived, what about the bearings/ bushes?

 

Thanks for asking Simeon... but that is a thick question.

 

I'll just discuss the later style distributors' wear, since that is what's being discussed in this thread.

 

I have not seen much play in the bushings that are pressed into the body, in terms of lateral play in the shaft.  They are not bronze, but some other alloy that is more the color of steel and apparently pretty tough stuff.  Bronze is pretty stinkin' soft by comparison.

 

There are shim washers stacked in with the fiber washers and they wear some too.  Especially the ones that ride against the housing where the bearings are pressed in, due to the smaller/uneven surface area.  That detail differs between old and new style units.  Old style here 

and newer style here

 

The bottom inside washer in the last one I bought/took apart had been completely cut through, leaving a tiny little washer remaining and you can see it happening on the one that was up against the underside of the body in the bottom photo.

 

 

Washer wear is the least of your worries though, because that's just basic maintenance and re-shimming takes it back to good-as-new.  It causes a sloppy spark though, if not shimmed, due to the skewed teeth on the gears.  Up and down translates to rotation as well.

 

One of the ugly kinds of wear to find is when the lobes on the center post wear down, due to people neglecting to keep grease on the points' rubbing block, or dirt getting in there and contaminating it.  (The one above is quite worn).

 

It appears that the post was chrome plated for durability and once it wears through that, it wears faster and can rust, which wears the points' rubbing block down faster, which means they need adjusting more often.  This is when Pertronix is an excellent solution.

 

(technically, that photo is from an early style distributor)

I polished it out, but you can see by the light's reflection that it is misshapen.  You can also see wear on the little pins that ride against the weights... but we're not discussing those here : )

 

There are little plastic sleeves on the bottom of the center post pins and they can wear, changing the total advance that it puts out.  You can spin them to get to new meat.

(credit for the little red circle goes to Lorin)

 

The pins that the weights pivot on are very hard and the wear at that point mostly happens to the weights, which are softer.  The pivot hole gets elongated over time and the weights tip outward, due to having added weight stacked on top.  There is a little plastic rubbing block on the underside of the weights that wears too, in line with this tipping.  That causes the foot of the weight to strike the lobes at the bottom of the center post unevenly and causes funny wear there (in both (4) surfaces).  These details are why I think it is important to put things back where they came from, so they play well together; although not exactly as originally designed.

 

Here is another set of gummed up points plates.  Sometimes they wear and get sloppy where they meet up and the distributor goes into the parts pile, unless you have a parts one to pick off of.  These points plates are pretty precious around here.

 

 

Of course the springs can wear too, as in, they might become softer.  Bending the tabs they attach to can add tension to the equation.  Swapping in new springs is an option too, if you can find, or make them.

 

I just flipped through that long thread I started to steal these photos.  There are a few other details mixed in there as well.

Tom

['76mintgrün'02]

Hey Bib,

any distributor updates to share?  Did you clean and lube the points plates?  Done any pin drilling and shimming?  Have you had any fun with that timing light yet?  So  much  fun  stuff  to  choose  from  !

 

[Bibm5]

Unfortunately I have not had a chance to open the ebay dizzy up and do anything with it yet. I dropped the pertronix in the one that came off the parts car and got timing close by checking throttle response. Soon after that the carb started leaking gas. I serviced the carb (among several other things) and got the gas leak fixed. One of the other things I did while I was in there was replace the busted up cooling fan blade.
After 10 (awesome) minutes of driving the worn out motor mounts allowed the replacement fan blade to kiss the radiator causing causing the blade to snap and the radiator to commit suicide.
I was lucky enough to find a decent fan blade on here for the price of shipping and I have the radiator out of the parts car but I'm waiting on the mount to. Once I get all that done I promise I will get it timed right.
While I was in there during the last service I even painted timing marks on the front of the engine and desmogged the car so now I can actually see down into the timing hole on the bell housing.
I've only had maybe a total of two hours or so of drive time in all summer [emoji22].


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