Rough idle, can't find vacuum leak?

[flagoworld]

Sorry for ignoring your asking about the plot twice - I still have the plot paper on my desk! If im gonna come by, i may as well bring the dizzy and confirm the dwell and all that.

 

I dont have a belt sander, but I can bring by a 13mm. If you want to hang out again, and do that with me, I’d be greatful!

 

Shouldnt be hard to get the manifold off... as long as I have the right tool. Tight fit!

[ray_]

Pull # 4 plug wire and confirm. 

 

But, yeah. You dummy. 

 

 

I would never do anything like that.

 

When I swapped intakes, ONE gasket stuck on the old intake and I didn't notice it until it was all back together of course.

 

 

[Dudeland]

38 minutes ago, '76mintgrun'02 said:

wasn't that a shaved down 12 mm?

I will look at it.  You may borrow it, if it is the size you need.

If you need a 13 mm and mine is smaller, we can make one of those.

 

we could plot the curve on that distributor too, while you are here.

I got a set of IR smaller manifold nuts.  I am not looking forward to doing it. 

['76mintgrün'02]

IR?  you mean IE?

12mm?

I will go find that wrench.

['76mintgrün'02]

HEY!  maybe you need ingramlee's number three gasket and he needs your number four... you guys could trade    

I just checked and my ground down wrench is a 12 mm.

[flagoworld]

THAT is hilarious!

 

Here's some more gasket flippage fun.

 

 

[kbmb02]

3 hours ago, flagoworld said:

Adjusting mixture down to full close doesnt change anything, but eventually if i turn it open far enough the idle drops a bit. No change in roughness pattern. IIRC close is richer and open is leaner right?

 

What I’d suggest: 

 

1 - find out what your ignition advance is at idle.

2 - ‘the precription’ has little value if you haven’t set your baseline idle settings; the way you describe the idle mixture ‘volume’ screw having little-to-no effect tells me your idle jets are off. Google for the DGV baseline settings and follow the directions (have idle jets on hand). FYI, turning that screw in (closed) is leaner, open is richer.

 

Good luck. -KB

[flagoworld]

Thanks everyone!

 

I just went for it and managed to fix the gasket with only a 13mm combo wrench and a clamp to hold the water neck tight. Removing the starter gave me easy enough access to the nuts, and only the one under the water neck was slightly difficult to get off. Only dripped a tiny bit of coolant down the side of the block, that was easily cleaned up... and more importantly, oooh she runs much better now. Now I can actually tune this thing properly!! Still way out of tune, as you can see...

 

IMG_6437.MOV

['76mintgrün'02]

3 hours ago, flagoworld said:

Sorry for ignoring your asking about the plot twice - I still have the plot paper on my desk! If im gonna come by, i may as well bring the dizzy and confirm the dwell and all that.

 

You are welcome to come for a visit and we can spin your distributor again, but I highly suggest buying an Innova 5568 timing light with variable advance/dwell/volts/tach.  ($1OO online -- to your door)

 

IMHO, this is an essential piece of equipment (or something similar), if you want to tune/maintain your own car. 

 

Setting timing is not as simple as BB in the hole at X-rpm.  You should also know total advance, idle advance and what is happening in between.  That tool will tell you all that, plus allow you to set your dwell. 

 

I keep mine under the seat.  The 2002 rarely leaves home without it : )

 

With the car idling, you could point that light into the bell housing hole and dial up the advance until the TDC mark appears, then answer Ken's question about advance at idle.  Just like that.

 

Where do you have the BB set now?

 

(Timing first... then adjust the carburetor)

 

 

[flagoworld]

Yeah I have a timing light and dwell meter. Don't think it's quite as advanced as that particular one, but it does the job. One day the rain will stop... one day...

 

PS: here's the sun machine plot.

 

 

['76mintgrün'02]

48 minutes ago, flagoworld said:

Yeah I have a timing light and dwell meter. Don't think it's quite as advanced as that particular one, but it does the job. One day the rain will stop... one day...

 

PS: here's the sun machine plot.

 

 

I would say your timing light 'does the job' if it has the variable advance feature.  

Good that you have a dwell meter.

What is the dwell set at now?

 

 

oh yeah, you have a vacuum retard distributor.  You do not have the pod hooked up, do you?

where did you set the BB when you set the timing.

 

(according to the graph, your advance is starting a bit early...)

[flagoworld]

I've no idea what the exact timing is right now because I set it and then messed with everything before realizing my gasket was backwards... When the rain subsides in a couple days I'll check all that.

['76mintgrün'02]

sounds like a plan.

I am just curious what "I set it" means.

whether it is still there or not doesn't matter to me... especially if you are just going to put it back "there".

what I am wondering is where it was set at.

meaning, how do you set your timing?

bb in the hole at Xrpm?

[flagoworld]

Oh. BB in the hole at 2000rpm, vac unplugged... Not gonna bother running the vac retard anyways. Erm, the manual said 25° btdc@2krpm IIRC.

['76mintgrün'02]

Who's Erm?

My name is Tom.

 

The manual is assuming that the emissions system is operational, with the vacuum retard pod, vacuum solenoids, temp switches and all that jazz.

 

You are not using your distributor that way anymore, so that setting no longer applies. IMHO.

 

(edit: plus, your distributor is 0ld and wOrn by n0w)

 

If you look at the graph we made (below) you can see that when the engine (crank) is spinning at 2000 rpm, (1000 on the graph = distributor rotation) the advance weights have already used up all but 2* of  the total advance (= 1* distributor advance -- on the graph). 

 

With the BB at 2000 rpm, you will reach max advance at 2200 rpm and it will be giving you a total of 27*, all-in.

 

If you bought a proper timing light, you could (easily) confirm that.   

 

By-the-Book-BB-settings ... they ain't what they used to be.

 

POP QUIZ --

1) If you were to look at the graph and say, "I want 36* total advance."  Where (rpm) would you put the BB to achieve that?

( BB = 12.5* on the left side of the graph)

Edited January 24, 2018 by '76mintgrun'02