electrical and ignition Ignition Troubles

[Alec]

Hey all, another question for the experts. 

 

After having finally gotten reunited with the car after moving to the Chicago area, I set about to do a few things:

 

1. Diagnose lingering fuel pump problems (solved by replacing the PO's electrical pump with a new mechanical pump from Blunt)

2. Do a tune up by adjusting valve clearance (per the Chilton manual), 

3. Put new spark plugs in (old ones were black), and 

4. Installing the 123Ignition that I got for Christmas last year. 

 

I did #1 and it solved my problems, and I had no trouble getting the engine started. The problem started after #2 (I didn't try to start the engine in before completing #3).

 

With the 123Ignition, I wasn't getting any ignition. I could smell fuel on the spark plug when I pulled it out after turning the engine over. I checked for spark and it was good. I tried reinstalling it by pulling it all out, resetting so I could see that the camshaft was at TDC, and following the instructions very closely. Still didn't fire up. 

 

So I tried putting the old mechanical distributor in, again aligning with TDC and the notch on the distributor (same location I saw it before I pulled it out the first time). This time, I can get it to start, but it only continues to run as long as I have the accellerator pressed, but the sound is also... unnatural. Here's a couple of videos showing it:

 

https://goo.gl/photos/GUGwWpDzfgmCJ5ZF9

https://goo.gl/photos/YJoEGrAc9HZtCSiD7

 

I wanted to verify that my piston was TDC when the camshaft indicated it was, but my borescope wasn't working. I also thought that because the mark on the camshaft and the old distributor were aligned, it meant that things were in good order.

 

Does it seem like I did something with the valves? Is my timing off? The sound of the engine running was so distinctive I thought it might be wise to ask the experts.

 

Thanks again!

[72_02]

Are the spark plug wires in the correct order? My engine sounded like this after I adjusted my tappets/valves, and it was because I mixed up the plug wires. It also gave a cough of smoke out the carb. Hopefully it's something simple!

 

1-3-4-2, clockwise i think just googled quickly.

['76mintgrün'02]

one of the distinctive sounds is the valve cover bouncing around.

it will get messy in a hurry, if you do not bolt it back down.

 

installing the distributor with number one at tdc is a good start, but you will have to set the timing with a light.

typically this is done with the vacuum line disconnected at the distributor and the BB in the hole at 1400 rpm.

 

there are several 123 experts who will likely chime in.

I am surprised we have not heard from Ed yet.

Usually mentioning 123 gets his attention immediately  

 

(oh, it looks like you have a leak in your brake system...)

[Alec]

10 minutes ago, 72_02 said:

Are the spark plug wires in the correct order? My engine sounded like this after I adjusted my tappets/valves, and it was because I mixed up the plug wires. It also gave a cough of smoke out the carb. Hopefully it's something simple!

 

1-3-4-2, clockwise i think just googled quickly.

 

Thanks 72, I double checked again and it was 1-3-4-2 clockwise.

 

7 minutes ago, '76Mintgrun'02 said:

one of the distinctive sounds is the valve cover bouncing around.

it will get messy in a hurry, if you do not bolt it back down.

 

 

Thanks - yea, I put 3/6 back on for the second video (first link) so that it would stop bouncing around. I can put all six back on with a new video if that helps?

 

7 minutes ago, '76Mintgrun'02 said:

(oh, it looks like you have a leak in your brake system...)

 

Uh oh, what makes you say that? I had to bleed the brakes right before we moved out because I knocked the actuator when I was putting new brake pads on the rear brakes.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Alec

['76mintgrün'02]

perhaps it is just a stain on the reservoir, but it looks like it is low in the video.

 

How have you set the timing?

[Alec]

2 minutes ago, '76Mintgrun'02 said:

perhaps it is just a stain on the reservoir, but it looks like it is low in the video.

 

How have you set the timing?

 

 

I'll double check the brake fluid shortly!

 

I haven't set the timing using a timing light yet - I haven't wanted to maintain the engine running with the current symptoms (plus it dies if I take my foot off of the accelerator). So I've set the timing by lining up the markings on the distributor with the marking on the camshaft (the one on the end near the timing chain). 

['76mintgrün'02]

try rotating the distributor a little bit counterclockwise and see if it will run 

(you can make a couple of marks at its base, if you want to be able to return to where it is now).

 

does your weber have an idle shut off valve (on the right side, in front of the choke, with a wire coming off of it)?

['76mintgrün'02]

okay, I just watched the video again and saw that your brake fluid was full to the top.  

Sorry for the false alarm.

 

[arminyack]

You're 180° out. Pull off your valve cover, and make sure #1 is TDC COMPRESSION, not exhaust via the mark on the camshaft.  I had the same trouble with my car, it did the same thing. Was a bitch to start, and when it did....I had to be full throttle to make it run. I'm amazed it it did at all!!

[Alec]

36 minutes ago, '76Mintgrun'02 said:

try rotating the distributor a little bit counterclockwise and see if it will run 

(you can make a couple of marks at its base, if you want to be able to return to where it is now).

 

That did it! Thanks! Just a little counterclockwise rotation and it was back to the old sound and idled on its own. Tomorrow I'll use the timing light to tweak it, though I'd ideally like to get the 123 working. Maybe I'll put it back in and try rotating it a little bit until in starts?

 

47 minutes ago, '76Mintgrun'02 said:

does your weber have an idle shut off valve (on the right side, in front of the choke, with a wire coming off of it)?

 

Yes, the weber has an idle shut off valve, but there's no wire connected. That shouldn't matter with a mechanical fuel pump, right?

 

31 minutes ago, arminyack said:

You're 180° out. Pull off your valve cover, and make sure #1 is TDC COMPRESSION, not exhaust via the mark on the camshaft.  I had the same trouble with my car, it did the same thing. Was a bitch to start, and when it did....I had to be full throttle to make it run. I'm amazed it it did at all!!

 

Were you saying that based on my description or the video? Here's the mark I aligned:

http://imgur.com/AkIRSmz

['76mintgrün'02]

34 minutes ago, Alec said:

Yes, the weber has an idle shut off valve, but there's no wire connected. That shouldn't matter with a mechanical fuel pump, right?

yes, it should matter, if it is working properly.

It should get 12V with the key on, or it is designed to cut fuel to the idle jet.

You can usually hear it make a click sound when you give it power, which is the sound of the plunger retracting.

Sometimes people nip the tip off the plunger, so that it no longer cuts off fuel... which may have been done to yours(?)

It really shouldn't idle well, with no power to that solenoid... no matter which style pump you have.

[arminyack]

2 hours ago, Alec said:

 

That did it! Thanks! Just a little counterclockwise rotation and it was back to the old sound and idled on its own. Tomorrow I'll use the timing light to tweak it, though I'd ideally like to get the 123 working. Maybe I'll put it back in and try rotating it a little bit until in starts?

 

 

Yes, the weber has an idle shut off valve, but there's no wire connected. That shouldn't matter with a mechanical fuel pump, right?

 

 

Were you saying that based on my description or the video? Here's the mark I aligned:

http://imgur.com/AkIRSmz

ok you not 180 out...you needed to get it a little but less / more static timing, or a tooth +/- adjusted?