Rust--how do you stop it?

[norma]

Here in the PNW, rust is a huge problem. How do you guys protect against rust especially in the frame rails, shock towers, structural, the usual places? I'm going to rehab a beamer soon and I don't want rust down the road. I know there are paint products that help but what else? I've got a motorcycle I store in a blow up bubble in the winter with circulating air to protect it. Would a simple fan help? Does heating the garage help? Thanks.

[Otis]

Norma, the only way to stop it, is to take everything apart, dip it, strip it, and e-coat it. Your question really is twofold - you are asking how to store the vehicle in order to minimize rust, and what to do when you rehab the car, in order to prevent rust. If you'll allow me some leeway, I'll interpret the thread as - how do I stop rust permanently, rather than farting around with fans and dehumidifiers and the like, so that I never, ever have to deal with rust on my car, ever again.

The answer is - e-coat.

What is e-coating? Well, here is an explanation:

http://www.clearclad.com/clearclad_resources/ecoat.htm

Basically, if you go to Detroit, and venture into the deepest, darkest recessesses of downtown, you will see the e-coat facilities for the OEM parts for the Big-3 (or whatever is left of the Big 3). E-coating is what the OEMs do to the new cars, and it's the reason why new cars rust less than old cars.

There really are only two places for the DIY'er to get car parts e-coated; I use Niles Manufacturing in Niles, Ohio. I drive to Niles, deposit the parts in the morning (for large parts, you have to go on Thursday), and leave that afternoon with rust-proof parts. You could bathe an e-coated part in salt water and it would not rust.

In order to e-coat, you have to strip the parts to bare metal (chemical, soda blast, etc.) and get the metal as straight as possible PRIOR to e-coating. DO NOT USE MUD, etc. - e-coating is a 400-degree-plus process, and the mud will get moisture (if it sticks) and the e-coating will simply trap the moisture. The main advantage to e-coating is that the coating gets in every nook, cranny, crack and opening - something that is impossible to achieve with powder coating, and very hard to achieve with POR 15.

Quite frankly, short of e-coating, nothing really works. I'm sure some posts will suggest POR 15 and other stuff - certainly that stuff is good. And I use it. But if bullet-proof is what you want, e-coating is the only way to go.

I just e-coated some parts for the Isetta, and I'm in the process of disassembling my dad's 1967 Peugeot 404, in order to give it the royal e-coat treatment. French cars are notorious for rusting, but I guarantee that when I'm done, that 404 will be bullet proof from rust. Thanks to e-coating and Niles, that is. Last time I went, it was pretty cool - my Isetta parts went right on the line, in the middle of a bar-line of Freuhauf big-rig bumpers. Strange but interesting juxtaposition.

I've made these types of comments several times on this Forum, and usually the comments are totally ignored. The POR 15 and powder-coating comments proliferate, but e-coating gets the silent treatment. Trust me, however, it's the only way to go. Uncle Rick and I swear by e-coating.

Now, what if you can't e-coat, or don't want to (budget reasons, time, non-frame-off resto, etc.)? I'll defer - after years of this, I'm simply not a fan of half-measures. Because they don't really work, IMHO. As noted, I have had luck with POR 15.

[TobyB]

You can't.

Waxoyl, 3m rustfighter 1 or other body cavity wax help a lot.

Heating the garage is also very good- a few degrees above ambient

is probably fine. A dehumidifier also makes a big improvement.

I think we live in one of the better climates for car survival...

t

[BarryA]

....The answer is - e-coat.

like the process would be pretty much limited to small / medium sized parts (suspension components, bumper brackets, etc) as opposed to major body panels (hoods / trunk lids / doors) or even complete body shells, unless there's a facility somewhere that's capable of e-coating something that large and complex.

Sounds like the process has the potential to be the ultimate in effecting true corrosion protection for rust prone unibodies, though - disassemble to a bare shell, put the tub and removable body panels through a rust stripping tank, fix any existing rust issues, then e-coat........

What's the cost compared to conventional plating / powdercoating?

[beast02er]

I agree with Toby, the PNW is a pretty good environment. I am starting to strip my Cortina project, last registered on the road in 82', sat outside and was apparently pretty covered in green at one time......its in better shape than my 02 I think (as I am finding)!

As for an answer to your question.......I don't really have an answer, but good luck!

[M3M3]

fyi.

beamer is an idiot who drives with foglights/driving lights on all the time.

bimmer is a bmw car

beemer is a bmw motorcycle.

[02Nut]

I agree with Otis that ecoat primers are part of the reason for the greatly improved corrosion resistance of modern vehicles. Virtually ALL cars made today are designed and specified with ecoat primers.

The challenges with ecoating older uni-body cars (like '02s) is to completely eliminate any existing corrosion from steel surfaces and making sure all steel surfaces are ecoated. Older cars weren't designed for ecoating so the ecoat primer doesn't always get into all the "nooks and crannies".

BTW - Otis - you're a lucky guy to have local access to a large scale ecoat shop like Niles Mfg.

[Otis]

02ers -

1. Niles accepts shipments. Crate it up and send it. http://www.nilesmfg.com/

2. Niles will do large parts, but only on Thursday. I've done the hood of an F350 on non-Thursdays - that's about the max size for the non-"big day" runs.

3. The "big day" runs have vats that resemble those large dumpsters that construction crews rent for large-scale demolition.

4. There is another place in Western Ohio that does full vehicles - it has larger vats. I'll dig up the name.

5. It is correct that you have to strip everything off, and then get it to the e-coater before it flash rusts. I've made many a mad dash between Forrestville, Maryland (home of Chemstrip) and Niles, Ohio, trying to beat the flash rust.

6. Your body guy will hate you for e-coating, if you e-coat first and expect him to bondo. There is a raging debate on whether body mud can or should be put onto an e-coated surface. My body guy curses me every time I give him an e-coated panel that needs straightening or tweaking - he claims that he has to grind off all the e-coating where he needs to apply the fix. Uncle Rick says the exact opposite. Only time will tell, who is right. Plus, Uncle Rick doesn't use bondo - he has a spray welder.

7. Regarding cost, usually they charge by whatever they can fit on a "bar." My last run was an entire set of fenders, bumpers, and the hood for the F350, and they charged me 250 bucks for that "bar."

8. Norma, you mention the motorcycle bubble; I assume you know about the car bubble. My brother keeps both his Porsche classics in bubbles - I'd comment more, but my brother is an obnoxious, pretentious asshole, so we don't speak - so let's forget about him and his stupid Porsches. But here's the bubble link. http://www.carcapsule.com/

9. There is absolutely NOTHING to do in Niles, Ohio - or Youngstown, for that matter. Except drive around and look at all the boarded-up businesses and abandoned buildings. Very sad. But the folks at Niles are nice. And you can buy fireworks in Youngstown.

[Napes]

Or,after you get the current rust stopped, you can move to Southern Arizona, where, for 10 mos. outta the year, the humidity runs between 5 and 9%. My 35 yr. old bimmer has no rust - it's lived down here it's entire life.

Bob Napier

[Diegoik]

there is a product from NCH CHEMICALS called CONQUEST. its a rust converter. what it actually does is that it works converting the existing rust into a salt/mineral turning it into a polimeric plastic (black).

you can pain over it, and give it practically any finish you want.. the product is used on oil platforms at sea, where corrosion problems are extreme, and they use it to protect the platform colums...

a gallon of the product runs about $50

[pkbinplano]

"Rust Never Sleeps" Neil Young