engine and drivetrain Schnitzer M10 20-4, 16-valve engines

[markmac]

Not likely, but you never know (CP that is).

1>  I would reach out to Schnitzer Classic, they may be able to help.

Services | Schnitzer Classic

SCHNITZER-CLASSIC.DE

---

✓ Restoration & Technical Service ✓ Race Support & Events ✓ Engine & Gearbox Revision ✓ Spare Parts ✓ Driver Coaching ✓ Sales & Procurement

 

2> If the Schnitzer Classic doesn't pan out, try Mahle Motorsport.

3> If this doesn't work, try Karl Seidler, Karl re-engineered the Schnitzer head kit and has built an engine or two.  He has to have the piston design.  Karl is in Austria, I have his contact somewhere.

4> I know of a guy in Germany that is remaking complete Schnitzer engines (this is where Vink Motorsport is getting their Schnitzer Turbo motors from, super expensive +$100k).  I don't have their contact but could probably get it.

5> If none of those work out, I could probably loan you one of my Mahle's (loan).  I don't particularly like sending my stuff away especially when I can't go and collect easily myself.  I lost an Alpina hemi piston this way, which Bumms me out (and makes me not want to follow that path again).  I am going to be on vacation for a couple of weeks so it wouldn't be until late August.

[uai]

All of the above
plus
Wahl would be the choice if you have the design / a sample.
They also might have the design themselves.
When you contact mahle with regards to a one-off they'll send you to Wahl anyway.

Wahl Spezialkolben GmbH |

WAHL-SPEZIALKOLBEN.DE

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by uai

[John O]

Thanks both. I've sent an enquiry to both CP and Wahl. Thnaks also Mark for the offer of sending a piston. I fully appreciate the generosity. I wonder if I could arramge fior 3D scanning of the piston which woudl eliminate the need for you to risk sending it all the way over here if I don't get a result from Wahl or CP?

I have two friends who have direct contact with Vink some others and they are trying for me too....  fingers crosssed...

 

[John O]

found these guys in SF... 

Scansite – Precise, accurate 3D scanning and CAD services

SCANSITE.COM

---

OUR 3D SERVICES 3D Scanning Onsite 3D Scanning Scan to CAD Modeling CNC  Foam Milling Large Format 3D Printing 3D Inspection

 

 

[markmac]

QVICK Motors was who I was thinking of.

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2023 by markmac

[John O]

Cheers Mark,

 

I heard that Qvick had bought up all the turbo pistons, they had no stock. I found a guy in Norway who had a spare set he offerd to me if I replaced. We need pistons for 90mm bore and his are 89.25mm he released the piston design with JE pistons and they are looking to make me a set up....  

On another note as its dry sump we need a new oil pick up. Any ideas anyone?

 

 

[uai]

1 hour ago, John O said:

On another note as its dry sump we need a new oil pick up. Any ideas anyone?

Modul Motorsport München | Rennsportteile BMW 2002

WWW.MODUL-MOTORSPORT.DE

---

Rennsportteile für den BMW 2002 und weitere Motorsportlegenden

 

But that guy is difficult to deal with - one of the rare occasions in my life where I hung up the phone

[markmac]

If you are talking about a dry sump pump (Schnitzer), I don't know that I have ever seen that part for sale (separately from an engine or engine parts).  You might be waiting a very long time to find that piece. 

 

My advice would be to buy an externally mounted pump and go that direction.  A number of folks make them, Titan, Peterson Fluid Systems and others.  I should think your engine builder would have some ideas (at least I would hope so).

 

Quite honestly you probably are better off with an externally mounted 3 stage pump, with the two scavenge stages.

[uai]

Modul had them on their old website

[markmac]

I don't recall, but then I haven't looked at their website in years.  Seems like at one point it was gone.  At any rate, I don't recall what pan (sump) John had.  Ideally you would have a Schnitzer pan for a canted motor.  Lacking that, you could probably have a crafty fabricator modify an OE steel pan (that is what Alpina did.....).

[uai]

22 minutes ago, markmac said:

 Lacking that, you could probably have a crafty fabricator modify an OE steel pan (that is what Alpina did.....).

I have one from a not-so-crafty fabricator if someone is interested. However shipping to the US might me more than the value of the drysump pan.

[markmac]

PM me I would like to see what it looks like.

[John O]

I do have a pump and pan just looking for a pick up. 👍

 

[BarrettN]

On 7/27/2023 at 8:41 AM, markmac said:

My advice would be to buy an externally mounted pump and go that direction.  A number of folks make them, Titan, Peterson Fluid Systems and others.  I should think your engine builder would have some ideas (at least I would hope so).

 

Quite honestly you probably are better off with an externally mounted 3 stage pump, with the two scavenge stages.

I have a M10 that came from a Lotus 23b - when in the Lotus it had a dry sump In talking with the Lotus guys their response was universal in that with all they had in their vintage engines they felt like the old school dry sump wasn't reliable enough to risk all they'd invested. 

[markmac]

Hmnnn, I guess it depends on what it is and how it is set up, condition of the pump etc.,  Some of the used/older pumps over the years no doubt had trash (metal frags) run through them that affect the performance of the pump - you wouldn't use anything marginal on an expensive race motor.  You can buy modern pumps now (ie., titan, weaver etc.,) that are efficient and reliable.

 

Virtually every Cosy BD/A/G, Hart 420r, BMW M12, etc., being run in non rallye car set ups run dry sumps.  The Schnitzer DS pump is a little wonky in that it is two stages, pressure in and one scavenge.  Most 4-cylinder race motors that are DS have a minumum of 3 stages (pressure in and two scavenge).  Back in the day when my car was racing, they used a 3-stage (alpina pump - top pic), externally mounted belt driven off the crank.  These were super reliable and from what I am told have incredible draw on the scavenge end.