Any concerns about using a tow dolly?

[Georges]

Smart move buying a dolly. I kept thinking "this is my last tow" so I kept renting dollies. I should have just bought one on day one and then sold it since a full restoration resulted in about 8 rental events.  Owning one avoids the "I'm in a hurry to return the dolly" and lets you load the dolly the day before, when your teenage son is around to help.

['76mintgrün'02]

Plus, you can drag home more project cars!

 

 

[JQ02]

45 minutes ago, '76mintgrün'02 said:

Plus, you can drag home more project cars!

 

That had occurred to me  

1 hour ago, Georges said:

I kept thinking "this is my last tow" so I kept renting dollies.

I'm fortunate that after 1 rental I did the math. Plus it was a hassle to return after a long trip and I didn't want to do that several times over.

[James Laray]

@JQ02  are you going down to metal and then build it back up? 

 

If so,  the best way to strip the broad panels on these cars without warpage or oil canning is with a flat razor type knife combined with a paint remover.   I did this on my 66 typ120 2000c resto.  I was lucky to get a great paint remover from Eastwood, but they have since stopped selling it due to it probably causing your liver to dissolve and/or hasten global warming and human extinction, but man the stuff was great.  Cover it with plastic to let it marinade for a few hours and that paint dropped off like a drunk sorority sister's dress on a Saturday night.

 

I did a full down to metal on a 76 2002 a few years back.   I did it all myself including epoxy 2 stage primer, high build, block and sanding,  shooting the base and clear.  I built my own paint booth. 

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity, what is your goal?  Daily driver or semi show car?    Once your start digging the hole, it can get deep. 

 

My 2 cents worth, I would strip the car myself and seal the bare metal with a paint roller and 2 stage epoxy, then get it over to the shop where he can do a light sand on the epoxy and shoot a second coat (or high build) with his HVLP.

 

The cost of high end paint jobs ($20K and up) is all tied up in the mind numbing high build applications and blocking.   Just hours upon hours.   What lays beneath the base and clear gets pulled forward in the end.  

 

   

Edited February 12 by James Laray

[JQ02]

2 hours ago, James Laray said:

flat razor type knife combined with a paint remover

Thanks! I just did some research and ordered some Citristrip and a rolling of shipping wrap!

My Mom got lymphoma from using Roundup in a backpack sprayer. I'm ok with the EPA.

 

2 hours ago, James Laray said:

Daily driver or semi show car? 

Daily. I hadn't originally planned to paint the car, but the closer I looked the more I realized it needed it. I'm doing as much of the labor as I can to disassemble the car, but I'm leaving prep and paint to someone who knows what they're doing  

Do you have any suggestions for covering the bare metal until I get it to the painter (no more than a couple weeks)? I'd rather they see what I got and prime it.

[James Laray]

@JQ02  curious as to what about the current paint is pressing you to want to repaint the car?  Faded, crazing, rust areas showing?  

 

It sounds like you have a shop or a guy lined up who has agreed to paint your 2002.   Has he detailed what he plans to do and how he will do it?  What products is he using?   Timeline?   price?  This process will take him weeks (if not months) to complete the car.  Where will he store it during the process?   

 

I had my first 2002 painted by MAACO in 1982 and then again in 1987.   It took them a couple of days.  They basically sanded the old paint down enough, but didn't remove the old primer (to give the surface "teeth").   The first finish was acrylic which didn't really last and then second I think was a urethane.    It looked pretty good, cost was about $500.   The drawback is you could tell it was a cheap paint job.  Easy to spot imperfections, subtle door dings that went unnoticed.   Paint jobs like this, if the cars spends a lot of time outdoors don't last but a few years.          

 

A quality metal up paint job involves removing all the paint without using a process that will overheat the metal (mechanical brushes/sanders/ or sandblasting), treating any microscopic rust with a neutralizer, addressing any body work with fabrication, modest fillers, skim coats, a THOROUGH wipe down with wax and grease remover, then sealing all surfaces with a 2-stage epoxy primer (I prefer PPG). This is the sealing foundation that protects the bare metal from any water intrusion/corrosion.

 

This is pretty much the only thing you would use to seal bare metal.   Base coat paints and sandable primers do not seal metal and are water permeable.  Clear coat does seal metal or what ever is beneath it (base coat).  

 

The next step after epoxy is to apply a 2-stage high build primer (PPG).   Stuff is heavy.  It has to go on within  the window noted by the primer fact sheet (normally no later than 2 weeks than when you layed down the epoxy), otherwise you will need to sand the epoxy to give it "teeth".    Not applying within the proper window or prepping will lead to paint eventually crazing or pealing.       Everything has to adhere.  

 

Quality shops will usually shoot 2 - 3 high build applications and then block the panels after each application to remove imperfections, scratches, uneven surfaces.   This is why good paint jobs cost around $20k (at a minimum).    Good blocking will take easily 100 - 200 hours of labor by an experienced shop (if not more).    It took me over 500 hours to do mine because I was learning as I went  working with an experienced mentor. 

 

If you go strait to base coat and clear (or a one stage application) without high build and blocking, then you will spend the rest of your ownership of the car  most likely noting imperfections when the sun hits the car at a certain angle that were not easily seen with the "naked eye" during prep.  Things like waves, sanding scratches, minor dings, imperfections.  The clear on top of base MAGNIFIES anything minor from the primer coats and body work.   MAGNIFIES.

 

This is why I asked you  1) why do you want to remove the current finish, and 2) what your end result desires are.    Are you obsessive?   I am.   I wanted my finish to reveal no sloppy prep work.   This is also why many 2002 owners settle for faded finishes and patina.   Good paint jobs are very expensive.   Truth be told really nice finishes on 2002s don't look period correct.  They are far better than the factory finishes. 

 

The actually painting stage for a car is the shortest and least expensive portion.  Shooting the base and clear.   This is where you need someone who can lay it down without any sags in a dust free environment with the proper equipment to avoid things like water in the paint.    Someone who knows the flash time windows between coats.  

 

A final stage is sanding and compounding the clear coat to remove orange peel for a mirror like glassy surface.   It took me 400 hours to do that (as a amateur with proper adult supervision).    

Edited February 13 by James Laray

[JQ02]

Thanks again @James Laray.

There are a host of small to medium issues that led me to repainting. 

The car was resprayed years ago with Glasurit Arktisblau over the original Fjord. The paint looks gorgeous from 10' away. However, they did not remove the windows and sprayed some of the window seals, also painted were every nut, bolt and wire under the hood:( , there are rust bubbles forming in several spots and open rust under and turns out inside rear side window trim. I wanted to roll the fenders and there's no way to go to the extreme I wanted to and not pop the paint. I swapped diving board bumpers for Euros which left many holes to be filled and repainted. I'm also finding lots of rust lurking and one area of bondo  

I'm planning on using Glasurit again. I was aware of the need for epoxy primer. The guy who's painting the car is trained and experienced, but doing my car on the side over the next few months.

I'm not looking for show quality - just a nice driver that I'll probably mostly keep out of the weather - that I know won't rust away from the inside out.

I'm ok with lack of period correctness.. I think it will fall in the category of restomod. I'm going with a very modern Tanzanite Blue Metallic.

I've started tracking my exploits. Thanks again for your advice.

 

[JQ02]

2 updates to this thread since it kinda forked...

 

What about dollying with the doors off? 

(with the seals and hardware removed, the doors are no longer providing any structural support)

Using the pinch weld jack points with my QuickJacks (I know! I know!), the doors didn't want to open - so I lowered it. 

I'm thinking maybe bolt some right-sized 2x4s between the jams for the tow?

 

Also, I was really bummed to find a ton of rust in the ceiling - sunroof was prolly storing water

So, I'm thinking maybe I need to take it to a place that will do the full media blast and apply the etching primer to button up the interior.

[James Laray]

Doors (and fenders) don't provide structural support.     Structural support is based on the rockers, roof line, pillars, floors.   

[JQ02]

12 minutes ago, James Laray said:

Doors (and fenders) don't provide structural support

Thanks @James Laray I wouldn't think doors do - I mean they certainly shouldn't, but given the flex I experienced (though lifting not from the wheels/suspension) it does have me worried. Maybe it's just 50 years and questionable floor repairs.

[TobyB]

The front fenders do add some structure to otherwise floppy nose pieces, but as to how much

deflection they reduce in normal use...  probably not a lot.  They ARE quite rigid, so they help some.

The doors- only in a crash, when the pillars move relative to each other.

 

For a cross- town tow?  Not enough to matter, for either, for sure.

 

These cars flex a lot- it's intentional.  Or rather, it's an accepted trade- off of how they're built.

I'm sure the chassis designers would have preferred them NOT to, but the production engineers-

the ones who had to live in the real world of weight, cost and manufacturing realities-

told them to suck it up, buttercups, and get back to work designing that 5 series.

 

t

 

 

[JQ02]

On 2/11/2024 at 11:40 AM, '76mintgrün'02 said:

I wouldn't be as concerned about the sand as the leaded paint

The rust on the ceiling and in the doors has lead me to a change of plans. I'm going to spend the $$$ to get the entire car blasted and epoxy primed at a facility that specializes in cars and will do it all inside and out. 

I ordered a lead paint test kit and everything! But I think everything else would be a waste if I only go half way on rust removal. I'm really picking up speed on the $lippery $lope, but so far no regerts.