Introducing Farnoush Engineering - Big Brake Kits

[danco_]

If there is at least equal amount of meat as say, an IE hub, and these hubs are in fact nearly double in strength, I’d feel comfortable running them on a street car. 
 

 

also I’m not an engineer and often make poor choices. But I’m still alive so there’s that. 

Edited March 23, 2021 by danco_

[BeEmVee2002]

2 hours ago, evil02 said:

 

  Were these actually engineered and at least simulated?  No offense but, the mounting surface is not the ares that needs the most strength. The area where the bearing gets pressed into needs the strength. I have made many hubs out of 7075. Many that had way more material in certain areas than yours and they still cracked, I would be very concerned with the barrel area where the bearing presses into and the back of the hub flange. You have a tiny radius there and thats where you will find cracking and or failure. I don't mean to put down your product but, I have seen enough failures to at least warn you. Hopefully you have worked through these areas and don't have any problems. Word to the wise, when hubs fail, bad things happen. 

Thanks for your comments and concerns. As a Mechanical Engineer, I have taken the necessary measures to incorporate the proper theory and principles into my designs and analysis. The hubs have a Factor of Safety (FOS) of 7 (as a reference, aerospace landing gear components are typically designed with a FOS of only 1.25). Furthermore, depending on the type of loads experienced, the wheel bearings or wheels studs would fail prior to the actual hub failing. 

[evil02]

13 hours ago, BeEmVee2002 said:

Thanks for your comments and concerns. As a Mechanical Engineer, I have taken the necessary measures to incorporate the proper theory and principles into my designs and analysis. The hubs have a Factor of Safety (FOS) of 7 (as a reference, aerospace landing gear components are typically designed with a FOS of only 1.25). Furthermore, depending on the type of loads experienced, the wheel bearings or wheels studs would fail prior to the actual hub failing. 

 

Ok, no worries(for me). I too am a Mechanical engineer (for 30yrs) and I have made many race components, including hubs. Hitting pot holes, curbs, etc. with and during high cornering loads are major factors often overlooked. A FOS of 7 means nothing if its not applied properly. Good luck with your parts.  I hope you have a legit business with insurance. Selling a muffler or shiny shift knob is one thing. Selling parts that can fail and injure people are another. Be careful. 

 

Edit - May want to run these a while and then crack check them.. We crack test all suspension components at the end of each race season or as needed.

Edited March 23, 2021 by evil02
Added..

[danco_]

Is there a discernible difference if we choose to stay with a 2002 MC over the e21 MC kit? 

 

How do these pair up with the 250mm rear drum "upgrade"? 

 

 

[evil02]

On 3/22/2021 at 9:08 PM, danco_ said:

If there is at least equal amount of meat as say, an IE hub, and these hubs are in fact nearly double in strength, I’d feel comfortable running them on a street car. 
 

 

also I’m not an engineer and often make poor choices. But I’m still alive so there’s that. 

 

[BeEmVee2002]

3 hours ago, danco_ said:

Is there a discernible difference if we choose to stay with a 2002 MC over the e21 MC kit? 

 

How do these pair up with the 250mm rear drum "upgrade"? 

 

 

There is no discernable difference when choosing either option 1 or option 2 with the stock 230mm rear drum brakes. Option 1 paired with an E21 master cylinder will provide a slightly higher caliper clamping force (19 lb) given the same amount of driver leverage and pedal stroke when compared to Option 2 (stock 2002 MC). 

If the car has been upgraded to the 250mm rear brakes with the larger wheel cylinders, it might be best to run Option 1 with the E21 MC in order to keep a better balanced brake bias. 

Option 2 was designed and intended to be used with the stock 2002 master and rear brakes. 

[2002iii]

3 hours ago, evil02 said:

 

Take another look from a different angle:

The Farnoush ones look twice as thick on the flange and just as thick on the bearing race mounts as the Ireland ones.

 

From a previous post it sounds like a lot of time and thought went into the engineered and atleast tested some. I would like to see more testing and crack checking. 

 

Most of the aluminum wheel hubs I see on the market are made from forged aluminum and not reccomend for street use.

 

[mbausa2001]

as a non-mechanical engineer, I have a few question for the experts-

are brake parts not regulated? are there standards that have to be met and passed?  Isn't the firm liable for selling defective parts? I'm not trying to be funny, but does thickness matter in metal world?  

[evil02]

1 hour ago, mbausa2001 said:

as a non-mechanical engineer, I have a few question for the experts-

are brake parts not regulated? are there standards that have to be met and passed?  Isn't the firm liable for selling defective parts? I'm not trying to be funny, but does thickness matter in metal world?  

 

There is no easy answer but, thickness matters in the right areas, is the only easy way to say it. Computer simulation is one thing and real world testing is another. Destructive testing reveals it all.

 

 Computer simulations are great but, you need to know what your testing for and how to apply it. It is not a simple task. Over building is what people tend to do when they are unsure of their design. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

 

 When you sell a product, you better be sure your not going to kill someone.  It is easy to say that these are, "for closed course competition" or, these are "race only" or "use at your now risk" parts but, anyone with a good lawyer will own you, especially if someone dies..

 

 I am not saying the design wasn't "tested" or they weren't engineered properly. I am saying, I built a lot of these parts and I question the integrity of these. If the OP says they are perfect and safe, thats on him. I always question parts that can injure someone. They need to prove me wrong. I will gladly eat crow if someone can convince me wrong and they are safe as can be. I hope I am wrong and he brings a great product to the 02' world. It's great to see people still making parts for these cars.

Edited March 25, 2021 by evil02

[evil02]

1 hour ago, 2002iii said:

Take another look from a different angle:

 

The Farnoush ones look twice as thick on the flange and just as thick on the bearing race mounts as the Ireland ones.

 

From a previous post it sounds like a lot of time and thought went into the engineered and atleast tested some. I would like to see more testing and crack checking. 

 

Most of the aluminum wheel hubs I see on the market are made from forged aluminum and not reccomend for street use.

 

 

   Correct, the flange is twice as thick, that means next to nothing. Where the bearing housing meets the flange is the area of concern.

 

  You can't compare the IE design to these. IE is like stock and this is a new design. The non IE has the brake rotor and wheel mounting on two different sides of the flange.  IE has them on the same side.

 

 The back side of the IE flange is similar to stock and has a more material and a larger diameter barrel to hold the bearing race. Thats key!  As your car switches from left to right and back, that thick flange is going to flex. Can the bearing cylinder take it? Who knows..

 

7075 is totally fine for race and street and in this case, way better than 6061. The barrel that holds the bearing is thin. It appears to be as thin as the OEM steel hub. If that is the case then the aluminum barrel will be weaker. I ould be wrong as I have not measured. Again, I hope I am wrong in all of this but, I rather be wrong than someone get hurt. I hope they are great and safe and the OP makes millions. Best of luck to him and everyone who buys them. You just can't say these are great for canyon driving and they are not track tested without a disclaimer or building them strong enough to do both.  

[Tuna_No_Crust]

Making assumptions and knocking a product solely based off of images doesn't seem like good engineering practice. Btw, it seems like the IE hubs are just a copy of the E21 hubs in an even more inferior material. This Farnoush Engineering kit seems like a well designed and executed product. Pretty cool that they offer 2 caliper options. Their coilover design looks pretty interesting too.

[danco_]

I’m probably going to buy a kit. I’ll be the crash test dummy. 
 

but you know, a discount would be cool too. 
 

I mean if I’m gonna die, I don’t want to pay a lot for it. 
 

 

for the record, I don’t drive my 02s hard anymore. I have much faster cars for that. 

[AceAndrew]

1 hour ago, Tuna_No_Crust said:

Making assumptions .... doesn't seem like good engineering practice. 

 

.......This Farnoush Engineering kit seems like a well designed and executed product.

 

Maybe I'm crazy, but that sure looks like you made an assumption right after telling off an engineer with experience directly related to the product not to make an assumption.  Tad bit contradictory?

 

         ..... and it appears that this is your first post on the forum....... interesting.  Welcome to the FAQ.

[mttpekin]

Yay for guys trying to make parts for the cars we love.

 

These are sweet looking. The dual hole patterns are awesome. RS Watanabe w/ some cn36 is a dream setup. Japanese Italian Fusion Footwear. That's sexy. 

 

I was looking at using some miata rotors and a custom hub for a very similar setup. There's sooo many miata rotor options hah mild to wild. I was dealing with wheel clearance issues in my cad. I run 13" wheels. I was mostly interested in this as an option for making custom offsets available. I guess I'm the type of guy who would rather machine custom hubs than run wheel spacers ha. I'm having my mahles hubs shaved this week.. booo. If you're programming the machine and building to order, maybe allowing the customer to be able to spec deviation from 'stock' hub face mounting location would be a super trick option. 

 

Is mfg in a steel not an option?

 

That'd relieve my stressing about the whole fatigue thing. Shitty engineer pun I'll see myself out.

 

Excited to see how these progress.

 

[evil02]

15 hours ago, Tuna_No_Crust said:

Making assumptions and knocking a product solely based off of images doesn't seem like good engineering practice. Btw, it seems like the IE hubs are just a copy of the E21 hubs in an even more inferior material. This Farnoush Engineering kit seems like a well designed and executed product. Pretty cool that they offer 2 caliper options. Their coilover design looks pretty interesting too.

 

   Welcome to the internet Paul Walker. I'm glad you can make it. I'm going to continue making assumptions and assume you are either the same person as the OP or his best friend.

 

 Even though the IE hub is made from 6061, I bet it's flange to bearing strength is the same or slightly less than OP's hub. You maybe able to get away with an inferior material when you engineer the part to the material's strength. 

 

 Instead of gathering all your friends to write pointless comments, just show the work. Or you can just throw a product out there and hopefully not kill anyone or get sued and lose everything your parents gave you.This is just free advice. Take it or leave it.

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by evil02