Issues when cornering hard to the right on track

[M3M3]

tire grip makes a big difference...the suspension needs to be setup for the tires being run.  higher grip means more roll to be controlled before traction is lost.  the normal order for tuning suspension is

pick tires.

pick spring rate for the "gross" adjustment of roll and balance

pick sway bars to fine tune roll and balance

pick dampers to control the effective spring rate of the spring/bar combo.

 

common mistakes are using sway bars to compensate for the wrong spring rate and, changing tires and expecting the car to handle the same.  

i just gave away a stock rear sway bar i had modified into a super soft adjustable one in an exercise like Tommy was suggesting. was getting inside rear wheel lift on right handers.  changed nothing except taking out IE rear bar (set on soft) with the noodle rear bar.  situation got worse.  put IE bar back in and jacked up the spring rates front and rear...problem solved.  

 

 

just as reference..my track setup. car is wonderfully balanced at the limit (and beyond LOL)

Hankook z-214 R-comp tires 205/50 15

425lb springs front

475lb springs rear

IE bars front and rear.  front full soft, rear 1in from full soft.

Koni D/A sport front  50% compression, 75% rebound

Koni S/A mustang race rear, 50% rebound

 

if i just swap on the street tires (s.drives), the car handling just sucks. twitchy. unpredictable.  WAY too stiff for the much lower relative tire grip.

street suspension setup for yokos.

350 front springs

400 rear springs

both IE bars on full soft.  in fact, i made extensions for the front bar to make it 1.5in softer.

Koni's on full soft front and rear.

this setup is much better for the way below traction limit driving that is possible on the street (eg...mountain fun runs at the Vintage)

 

each car is different.  each track is different.  each driver style different.  part of the fun of doing a lot of track days is changing stuff to see what happens....continually refining the setup to make the big stupid grin on the face even bigger...?

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by mlytle

[Einspritz]

35 minutes ago, mlytle said:

if i just swap on the street tires (s.drives), the car handling just sucks. twitchy. unpredictable.

 

That's because, well, they are S Drives, with a really soft sidewall; had them on my M3 and when quick lane changing, it took a second or so to react. Squirmy with quick steering input.....Took them back and bought RE71s.

 

47 minutes ago, mlytle said:

each car is different.  each track is different.  each driver style different.  part of the fun of doing a lot of track days is changing stuff to see what happens....continually refining the setup to make the big stupid grin on the face even bigger...?

 

Yup; and I will leave it at that.

 

 

 

[M3M3]

1 hour ago, Einspritz said:

That's because, well, they are S Drives, with a really soft sidewall; had them on my M3 and when quick lane changing, it took a second or so to react. Squirmy with quick steering input.....Took them back and bought RE71s.

LOL...um, well, no.  would have handled just as bad with RE71's.  the point was a tire with a significantly lower traction level than a 40TW track tire requires a different suspension setup.  with the right suspension setup, s.drives (not available anymore) are very nice sporty street tires.  stiff sidewall and excellent steering response.  i wouldn't use them on the track with a race suspension.  different tools for different jobs.

Edited April 18, 2020 by mlytle

[Flunder]

"Any suspension will work as long as you don't let it."

                                 Ken Miles

 

Alpina 2002ti track set up at work on a right hand sweeper.