Anyone have (or, seen) an M20 w/ AC?

[Seth Horwitz]

I'm just looking to see if anyone has any info. I'm happy to do the research, but I've found nothing on the search function. Thanks. 

     Seth

[TobyB]

Why, yes, both my E30's have air conditioning!

 

But that's not what you were asking, I bet.

 

There 'should be' room to fit a compressor onto an M20 in a 2002.

You will have to hornswoggle the evaporator in, though.

 

t

[Seth Horwitz]

Thank you, Sir. (And, well played. I should've been specific.)  I'm just trying to figure out what's possible, before I head down any particular path. Is there any online resource for measurements of various engines and trannies? I'm guessing there aren't a ton of freely available CAD files of 45 year old parts. 

[Flamingo 5]

I thought you were referring to

a S-14 engine from a early M-Car

in a 2002. That is what I think when I hear M2.

 

[Ireland Engineering]

We always say anything is doable with enough time and money!

Anyways, don't see why the condenser wouldn't fit. that shouldn't be a problem.

 

Just wondering if you happen to have stock 2002 evaporator and lines, and if the lines had the same fittings for the M20 condenser (doubt it). If not, making new lines is not that expensive or difficult.

Also curious to know what mounting looks like on the 2002 condenser. Would it possibly bolt to the M20 bracket? (also doubt)

 

We just put an M30B35 in an E30 that had an M20B25 in it. The M20 compressor bolt right up to the M30 block/bracket.

 

[Seth Horwitz]

18 minutes ago, Ireland Engineering said:

We always say anything is doable with enough time and money!

Anyways, don't see why the condenser wouldn't fit. that shouldn't be a problem.

 

Just wondering if you happen to have stock 2002 evaporator and lines, and if the lines had the same fittings for the M20 condenser (doubt it). If not, making new lines is not that expensive or difficult.

Also curious to know what mounting looks like on the 2002 condenser. Would it possibly bolt to the M20 bracket? (also doubt)

 

We just put an M30B35 in an E30 that had an M20B25 in it. The M20 compressor bolt right up to the M30 block/bracket.

 

 

I'm feeling a bit foolish, but I took delivery of the car at my mechanic, yesterday, and didn't poke around or take any pictures of things I wanted to do beforehand. The car sat in a garage from '91 til '17, at which point the latest seller bought it and made it drivable, but I wanted my mechanic to do a once over to make sure the work is actually good and the car is safe.

 

Anyway, the car has the port/dealer installed Behr AC, and it actually still works. I know that an M20 pushes a bit further into the cabin, and I won't know what's behind the console face until I get the car back and start tinkering, which spurred this question. I think my question therefore has two parts. 1) Will the package fit in the engine bay? (Condensor, etc.) 2) What about inside the passenger compartment?

 

I'm no mechanic, but I did some work in software a while back, and used that time and money line quite a few times. "Can you do this?" "I sure can. Can you afford it?"

[TobyB]

12 hours ago, Ireland Engineering said:

 

Anyways, don't see why the condenser wouldn't fit. that shouldn't be a problem.

 

 

That's because you've never looked.

 

To help you out a little bit, the M10 is a 4 cylinder engine, and the M20 is a 6.  The bore center

on an M20 is a little closer together, but  nonetheless, the M20 block is quite a bit longer

than the M10.  

 

The 2002 is also quite a bit shorter than an E30, as it's two generations older, and designed for a 4 cylinder.

 

It's not uncommon for the M10 to touch its radiator if things get loose.

 

So, if you're with me this far, packing the longer M20 into the short 2002 is a tight fit,

Most run pusher fans in front of the radiator, as there's simply no extra room.

 

Thus, adding another 1 1/4" for a condenser becomes a bit of a trick, IF you don't want to

cut up a significant amount of sheetmetal, punch lots of holes, and if you want to run a fan, etc.

Quote

Also curious to know what mounting looks like on the 2002 condenser. Would it possibly bolt to the M20 bracket? (also doubt)

The condenser doesn't attach to the engine, it attaches to the nose sheetmetal.

And the 2002 never came with air conditioning from Germany. It was added at dealers in the US.

Usually with a couple sheetmetal screws.

Even the E21 suffered from that malady...

 

Of course some M20 accessory parts will fit M30Bxx's- they were contemporary engines fitted to some of the same chassis.

 

 

Jeff, you've been at this for a while, but your sales guys are making you look... bright and shiny.

 

t

6 into 2002 does go... but keeping your cool is harder.

[M3M3]

13 hours ago, West Palm 2002 said:

I thought you were referring to

a S-14 engine from a early M-Car

in a 2002. That is what I think when I hear M2.

but he said M20, not M2...

 

12 hours ago, Seth Horwitz said:

I know that an M20 pushes a bit further into the cabin,

actually, it doesn't.  M20 goes in 2002 without firewall changes.

[Seth Horwitz]

Just now, mlytle said:

actually, it doesn't.  M20 goes in 2002 without firewall changes.

 

Doesn't the tranny tunnel need some loosening to allow for the shift, also pushing the gear shift back a touch? I thought that was the case, but hoping I'm wrong. Thanks. 

[M3M3]

 

13 hours ago, Ireland Engineering said:

Anyways, don't see why the condenser wouldn't fit. that shouldn't be a problem.

in FRONT of the radiator?

 

13 hours ago, Ireland Engineering said:

Also curious to know what mounting looks like on the 2002 condenser. Would it possibly bolt to the M20 bracket? (also doubt)

assuming this is a typo and you meant COMPRESSOR.

Edited March 8, 2019 by mlytle

[M3M3]

5 minutes ago, Seth Horwitz said:

 

Doesn't the tranny tunnel need some loosening to allow for the shift, also pushing the gear shift back a touch? I thought that was the case, but hoping I'm wrong. Thanks. 

depends on what tranny is used.  with the right trans, no change.

[M3M3]

23 hours ago, Seth Horwitz said:

I'm just looking to see if anyone has any info. I'm happy to do the research, but I've found nothing on the search function. Thanks. 

     Seth

search in faq or google the term "6 into 2" and you will finds lots of info you need.

[AceAndrew]

22 minutes ago, mlytle said:

depends on what tranny is used.  with the right trans, no change.

 

Based off of what he's said, I'm assuming he's referring to the M20/245 combo.  

 

Yes, the tunnel needs massaging (just like with a standard M10/245 5-speed swap, only with a little more manteca given it's going to sit back about an inch further than the standard M10 combo).  The shifter hole reposition rearward is to allow for a little bit of selector rod length, it is optional.

 

You are always welcome to write and/or chat over the phone.

[Conserv]

1 hour ago, AceAndrew said:

 

Based off of what he's said, I'm assuming he's referring to the M20/245 combo.  

 

Yes, the tunnel needs massaging (just like with a standard M10/245 5-speed swap, only with a little more manteca given it's going to sit back about an inch further than the standard M10 combo).  The shifter hole reposition rearward is to allow for a little bit of selector rod length, it is optional.

 

You are always welcome to write and/or chat over the phone.

 

I’m not certain if it still pertains, but Seth previously mentioned that he needed to run an automatic transmission. I’m guessing the M20 automatic is a bit larger than the 245....

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Conserv

[AceAndrew]

Whoop, I remember that.  Yeah, that's a different bowl of gumbo then.