engine and drivetrain Restoration Well Under Way - One Panel At A Time

[Tommy]

Amazing. I'm speachless for a while every time you make a new post about your progress.

The thing is that I've done each step the best I could but every time you set the level miles higher!!

Tommy

[schoir]

"De-snorkeling" is the topic today.  

 

Although it is somewhat out of the order in which we have been tackling this project, here it is nonetheless.  I thought it would look more complete with the '73 tii engine that has been in there for 30 years.  (I'll return to the proper order with the next installment).

 

Here is the subject snorkel, dirt and all, before excision:

 

 

 

(I've had a 320i radiator retrofit in here since this summer when my original radiator was damaged by a freak object that must have been propelled up from the road and ended up striking the radiator and the fan blade).

 

The snorkel can be removed by drilling out 4 spot welds around the top half of the snorkel.  You can locate those spot welds in the two previous photos. Here it is with the metal patch formed and welded in (a very "tricky" process) but it's pretty close to its final shape to avoid a lot of filler:

 

 

A little more final grinding to try to minimize the amount of body filler:

 

A copious amount of body filler to recreate the little metal lip beneath the original snorkel.

 

Now grind off and sand off about 95% of the filler:

 

Another view:

 

Here it is with all paint ground off all of the areas of the engine compartment that will be repainted. The plan is to remove the engine sometime after next spring/summer and properly do the engine compartment.  For now, I honestly felt that if I took the engine out, I would be overwhelmed by the project.  As it is, I haven't found it easy to remove all sorts of screws, parts and other fasteners and I am anxious to put some of those parts back on ASAP.

 

 

Another view:

 

Two coats of primer after some "Prepsol" to clean the area of any fingerprints, etc and a tack cloth treatment:

 

This is how the old snorkel area will stay (except for another seam sealing session, scuffing, cleaning and tack cloth)  until we spray the entire shell:

 

It's a lot of work for a little detail, but then EVERYTHING is a lot of work if you are determined not to cut corners!

 

Regards, Maurice.

Edited October 22, 2014 by schoir

[Pstegner]

I have a question. I am almost done replacing all the rust panels and will be starting the bodywork soon. After I sand and media blast the car to bare metal, should I primer at that point and apply filler over the primer, or should I apply body filler to bare metal and then prime? Thanks

[schoir]

First apply body filler and then apply primer.

 

Before you apply the body filler, to get some good "tooth" on the bare metal go over it with 180 grit sandpaper, especially if you have a very smooth bare metal surface.  In the areas where you have media blasted, that step will probably not be necessary, depending on the texture of the surface that you ended up with.

 

Take a look at post #28 of this thread for photos of the sequence.

 

Regards, Maurice.

[Pstegner]

Thank you very much for your posts and answers.

[bwingate]

Maurice -

 

Have you done any work on the a-pillars or rockers?  I dug in to fixing the floor panels and found rust in the a-pillars too - the forward portions.  I've ordered replacement panels from W&N.  Any tips, besides bracing the cr@p out of the shell, going slow and constantly checking fit?

[schoir]

Maurice -

 

Have you done any work on the a-pillars or rockers?  I dug in to fixing the floor panels and found rust in the a-pillars too - the forward portions.  I've ordered replacement panels from W&N.  Any tips, besides bracing the cr@p out of the shell, going slow and constantly checking fit?

Sorry for the very late reply, haven't been at the shop for quite a while.  Brutal winter here.

 

I haven't had to do any work on the A-pillars, except for a tiny hole (3/8" diameter) where the vertical part of the door frame (at the front) on the passenger side meets the part of the A-pillar that comes down on an angle from around the windshield frame.  Nothing structural, so I'm actually going to use that hole to stick in a tube to spray in Eastwood's "Internal Frame Coating".

 

My driver's side rocker panel, just forward of the rear wheel well had to be replaced and I used a patch panel for the outer rocker section, which comes as part of the lower section of the rear quarter panel just forward of the rear wheel.  We also fabricated a smaller support section for the inner part of the rocker panel, just forward of the rear wheel well also.

 

If you haven't done that work yet, I can send you some photos.

 

Your instinct to brace the hell out of everything is a wise one, especially if you are cutting away some major structural sections.  Depends on how deep and far the rust has gotten.  Of course ir you are going to be welding in new patch panels, the most important part is constantly checking fit and going back and forth to try the fit before you cut any more metal away.  The smaller the gaps are between the good, old metal on the car and new patch metal the easier it is to get a really good, strong weld.  It's very difficult to bridge bigger gaps, so even if it takes you an inordinate amount of time going back and forth to check fit it will save you lots of time and aggravation in the end.

 

Regards, Maurice.

[bwingate]

Sorry for the very late reply, haven't been at the shop for quite a while.  Brutal winter here.

 

I haven't had to do any work on the A-pillars, except for a tiny hole (3/8" diameter) where the vertical part of the door frame (at the front) on the passenger side meets the part of the A-pillar that comes down on an angle from around the windshield frame.  Nothing structural, so I'm actually going to use that hole to stick in a tube to spray in Eastwood's "Internal Frame Coating".

 

My driver's side rocker panel, just forward of the rear wheel well had to be replaced and I used a patch panel for the outer rocker section, which comes as part of the lower section of the rear quarter panel just forward of the rear wheel.  We also fabricated a smaller support section for the inner part of the rocker panel, just forward of the rear wheel well also.

 

If you haven't done that work yet, I can send you some photos.

 

Your instinct to brace the hell out of everything is a wise one, especially if you are cutting away some major structural sections.  Depends on how deep and far the rust has gotten.  Of course ir you are going to be welding in new patch panels, the most important part is constantly checking fit and going back and forth to try the fit before you cut any more metal away.  The smaller the gaps are between the good, old metal on the car and new patch metal the easier it is to get a really good, strong weld.  It's very difficult to bridge bigger gaps, so even if it takes you an inordinate amount of time going back and forth to check fit it will save you lots of time and aggravation in the end.

 

Regards, Maurice.

I'm on Long Island too so I know what you went through.  Last weekend was the first time I could get out and do actual work on the car.

I would appreciate the pictures - hopefully to get some perspective on what I have to look forward to.

 

My real worry right now is that the inner rocker on the driver's side looks rusty and/or hacked up.  I have get the car up in the air to look at it better next weekend and see what I'm actually up against.

[schoir]

(Note: Although not in order of the work completed, I'm covering this area first and including lots of photos for bwingate's reference)

 

When I first started out on this restoration, I thought my car was relatively rust free with just a few very small areas that needed attention and, although I have owned the car since new and did not expect any surprises, the area just forward of the driver's side rear wheel well cemented one thought that has always been in the back of my mind when dealing with rust:  whenever you see rust rearing its ugly head, no matter how minute or tiny the area of rust may seem on the surface, there is ALWAYS more rust than you can imagine underneath...No exceptions!  Ever!

 

Here is what the area looked like before starting the complete repair.  I had already temporarily welded shut the small molding holes and primed the area a while ago just to keep it somewhat stable while waiting to get around to the "real" repair.

 

 

 

 

It doesn't look too bad (or so I thought), but I decided to get a replacement panel from Walloth & Nesch to do a cleaner, more permanent "less patch and less bondo" repair:

 

 

To start out, take the replacement panel, press it against the area that it will replace and scribe the outline hard onto the original surface.  We used that to guide exactly what to cut away, keeping in mind that keeping the gap that has to be "bridged" by the welding as small as possible will be ideal for welding.  Ideally, the two pieces of metal should be flush against each other.  Even though that requires A LOT of extra time, it pays off in spades when welding and grinding things flush.

 

After the scribing (you can see one of the scribed lines on the face of the old panel), we started by cutting on the vertical door jamb part to open it up:

 

 

Now the partial "door sill" area":

 

Then, straight across, being very careful to keep the cut as shallow as possible when getting near the front edge of the rear wheel well...There is sheet metal that forms part of the rear wheel well under there:

 

Progress:

 

Now the rear vertical edge, again keeping the cut as shallow as possible, while still cutting through:

 

Peel it away, pulling it downwards:

 

You can now see why you have to keep the cut shallow as you work near the rear wheel well.

 

Using a hammer and chisel to separate the lower horizontal edge:

 

Victory!

 

 

Underside of old and new panel compared:

 

 

Here is what could not be seen or guessed from the apparent rust on the outside...pretty ugly:

 

It looks like we will have to fabricate and replace the inner rocker (the part with the circular holes) and a part of the structural support near the wheel well corner.

 

Peeling away the remainder of the strip of metal that did not come off with the whole piece:

 

Starting to fabricate and fit a replacement section for the inner rocker section, making sure to go well past the weak or rusted metal until you can mate it up with solid metal:

 

 

Once the fabricated piece looks like it can fit nicely, we now scribe onto the old metal for a guide on where to cut and start cutting again:

 

 

 

 

Another smaller section added so that we can have new metal right up to where the outer replacement panel joins the rest of the "door sill":

 

 

Here it is with everything cut out, including the small square and triangular support section near the edge of the wheel well, and all the remaining metal ground down to remove all the surface rust:

 

Spraying a coat of weld-thru primer for the welds that will come:

 

Still have to fabricate the small support section.  That will be next.

 

(I know that this is a lot of detail, but since this is a common rust area on the '02's it might prove to be a useful reference in case someone wants to tackle this on their own.  It's difficult, but definitely doable with attention to measurements and detail)

 

Regards, Maurice.

Edited April 22, 2015 by schoir

[bwingate]

Thanks Maurice.  My car previously had this same repair done to both sides, but there is a big blob of filler in the corner in front of the rear wheel.  I know I am going to have to get there and do this.  I've already read your post twice.  I'm sure I'll go over it a few more times.

 

Bruce.

[schoir]

Bruce:

 

There are more photos for the rest of the process.  It was a lot for one post, but I'll add the rest of them in another installment.  I also have photos of the small patch that had to be added at the corner in front of the rear wheel.

 

One thing I know for sure in that corner area that you describe is that if you leave it unattended (i.e., don't cut out the cancer) the blob of filler will eventually fall out and the cancer will have spread further. 

 

That doesn't occur overnight though, so you can decide whether and when you want to cut it out.

Regards, Maurice.

Edited July 6, 2015 by schoir

[schoir]

After about a two month layoff that could not be avoided, started working on the roof which had become particularly nasty from the car sitting outside for about 5 years.  This is despite having repainted the whole car in about 1985, including the roof, and having been particularly careful not to remove the original primer from the factory.  Unfortunately, as I have previously mentioned, I made the mistake of using factory paint for the repaint and that formulation simply cannot stand up to the sun and other weather over the long run.  IMO, unless the car is always garaged the paint from that era is not an option for a current repaint, unless the car is going to become a garage queen and not be exposed to the elements over a long period of time.

 

The roof was in pretty bad condition from the newly applied (in 1985) original paint having cracked and then progressing through the original (from 1971) primer to rust at various depths.  The rust in some circular spots was more pronounced (i.e., a little deeper) than in other areas, but fortunately, nothing that needed patching.

 

 

Not very pretty, but at least it's manageable.

 

Here you can see what's been ground down to acceptable clean metal and, at the lower edge of the photo some of the nasty rust circles that are awaiting the same treatment.

 

 

Grinding with a 24 grit disc on its edge only is essential to produce the desired rust removal without heating up the metal to where it might warp.  Here you can also see the one dent in the roof, where the yellow masking tape was placed to ease its location when all the paint is removed.

 

 

Almost completely done with rust removal, just have to go around and inspect it one more time.

 

All done, now have to give it a skim coat to smooth out the gouges from the aggressive 24 grit disc.

 

Started to skim coat the entire roof.  Most of the bondo will end up on the shop floor but the roof will eventually look like glass.  A difficult panel because of the large flat expanse, but nothing that some serious hours won't cure.

 

That's it for now.  I hope to be finishing up the roof and getting it ready for primer soon and I'm also going to tackle the inside of the trunk compartment next.

 

 

[schoir]

Well, the roof is done!  No easy task considering that it's been VERY hot and humid on Long Island and the temperature inside the body shop is well above 90 degrees, even at night.  That makes the spreading of the bondo very difficult because it hardens so quickly, especially when you are dealing with such a large panel as the roof.  Adding less catalyst is not an option (at least not much of an option) because you then run the risk of having bondo on there that does not quite harden.  A very messy prospect.

 

 

 

We resorted to an old trick...Keep the bondo in the shop refrigerator for a couple of hours and it gives you extra time to work it.

 

The tricky part is to keep the two body lines that run front to back, about 10 inches inboard from the rain gutters.

 

Using a line of masking tape helps greatly in cutting in the lines and making them sharp and straight.

 

 

 

Once this was all done, we removed the windshields and will start to tackle the small remaining areas with paint, under the winsdhield gaskets.  Once all of the paint has been removed, we will then prime the entire roof, windshield surrounds and the horizontal area at the base of the center of the front windshield (above the heater fan). 

 

 

 

A good trick which helps to make windshield removal uneventful is to use a nylon rope to help "guide" the gaskets off the windshield frames.  We used a plastic spoon, and worked it into the lower corner on one side of each windshield.  If you force it under the gasket, starting from the inside of the car, you can get it to stick through to the other side without damaging the gasket (assuming your gaskets are reasonably pliable and not dried out).  You can then introduce the nylon rope underneath the plastic spoon and then pull the rope up gradually, holding the rope on each on the inside and on the outside of the windshield.  It helps to have another person when you are doing this, but it's not impossible if you have to do it solo.  Then, as you are pulling the rope up one vertical side of the windshield, you may have to nudge the gasket over the metal lip of the frame, working from the inside.

 

Got lucky, because there is only one speck of rust a little more than halfway up the passenger side of the rear windshield.

 

 

 

 I will move aside the vinyl head liner and the other vinyl pieces which wrap around the windshield frames in the next installment.  The object is to get every bit of paint off, even though the paint is very intact under the gaskets.  I simply don't trust this paint...After more than 40 years, it's still a little soft and releases continually when rubbed with any kind of cleaner or solvent.  I'm counting on the new technology that has gone into modern primers and top coats to do a better job, especially when exposed to the weather.

 

Regards, Maurice.

Edited July 19, 2015 by schoir

[schoir]

I attended to the area just below the front windshield.  Trying to get all of that area down to bare metal, especially the areas prone to rust.  

 

 

 

 

This happens a lot at bolt holes and wherever fasteners go through the metal and where two pieces of metal are joined together:

 

 

 

The plan is to grind off the paint wherever the panels are accessible and do a POR-15 treatment to other areas, such as the underside of that little panel and concentrating on the areas opposite those where there is tell-tale rust on the visible side.

 

 

Here is a little more grinding around the front windshield frame from a few days ago.  Trying to get off as much paint as possible before we removed the windshield.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is an area, at the base of the windshield, on the passenger side, where rust had eaten a small hole.  The rust was a result of an accident I had in about 1977, where the hood got shoved back just enough for the rear upper corner of the hood to damage the body in that little corner.  What became obvious about 10 years after the repair, was that the body shop did not have in mind a "permanent repair" and just made it look good.  Eventually, the rust bubbles appeared in that little corner and then turned into a little hole.  We cut out the little area and welded in a small patch.

 

 

 

Looking at it now, some 8 months after the patch, with the car sitting in the body shop all this time, it's obvious that we will have to touch up that repair to fill in the two little holes and that small depression near the drain channel cut-out (click on the photo to blow it up to see this).

 

I will also drill a hole on the opposite side of the "A" pillar after removing the door gasket retaining strip and spray some of the Eastwood "Internal Frame Coating".

 

Regards, Maurice.

Edited July 20, 2015 by schoir

[bwingate]

Did you ever make a decision about what to do with the roof gutter trim?