2002 m20

[nothoumbs]

I know its kinda a guess on how much it cost to make a 2002 m20 but whats the cost do do something like that. would it be cheaper to buy a 2002 with the m20 in it or make one. I really would like to get my hands on one either way lol.

[Pierre]

I know its kinda a guess on how much it cost to make a 2002 m20 but whats the cost do do something like that. would it be cheaper to buy a 2002 with the m20 in it or make one. I really would like to get my hands on one either way lol.

It is ALWAYS cheaper to get a car done as opposed to doing it yourself. But there are risks too.

You do not know the intricacies of the swap which makes a little harder to diagnose potential problems.

You don't know the quality of the work.

My m20 conversion was a hybrid. I sent the car without engine or transmission, handed Groma Fabrications an M20 engine and transmission, they put it in the car, fabbed the motor mounts, the tranny mount, the motor and tranny, the drive-shaft and the exhaust. I did the rest.

[potentialm20]

Way cheaper to do it yourself than buy one already running. IF-you can do all the work yourself. I am going to come in under 2000 for my entire project, obviously you can spend as much more than that as budget allows.

Basic price list

Shell-$500-10000 (depends how nice a car you want to start with)

M20-$300

Getrag 260 $100-300 (323i trans is easier to fit but way more money)

Motor mounts- $120 (Manimal and I make them)

Custom drive shaft $90 (may vary but that's the best price I found)

Exhaust-$120 (from summit, welding required)

That is the big stuff, there is of course lots of misc-higher pressure fuel line, fuel pump, etc 6 into 2 does go covers the details pretty well. I would not suggest you try this as a first project, but if you have some experience go for it.

[granth]

I sent the car without engine or transmission, handed Groma Fabrications an M20 engine and transmission, they put it in the car, fabbed the motor mounts, the tranny mount, the motor and tranny, the drive-shaft and the exhaust. I did the rest.

What does Ed charge to do this?

[Pierre]

I sent the car without engine or transmission, handed Groma Fabrications an M20 engine and transmission, they put it in the car, fabbed the motor mounts, the tranny mount, the motor and tranny, the drive-shaft and the exhaust. I did the rest.

What does Ed charge to do this?

I would rather you called him and asked directly. My transplant involved a strut brace, the throttle cable, a short shift kit, a clutch kit and a few other items. I supplied Ed with 2 driveshafts. One from a 2002 and one from an E30. I also supplied the downpipes but he fabbed the rest of the exhaust. He also powder-coated my intake manifold and my valve cover.

Each job is different and will be priced accordingly.

[Pierre]

Way cheaper to do it yourself than buy one already running. IF-you can do all the work yourself. I am going to come in under 2000 for my entire project, obviously you can spend as much more than that as budget allows.

Basic price list

Shell-$500-10000 (depends how nice a car you want to start with)

M20-$300

Getrag 260 $100-300 (323i trans is easier to fit but way more money)

Motor mounts- $120 (Manimal and I make them)

Custom drive shaft $90 (may vary but that's the best price I found)

Exhaust-$120 (from summit, welding required)

That is the big stuff, there is of course lots of misc-higher pressure fuel line, fuel pump, etc 6 into 2 does go covers the details pretty well. I would not suggest you try this as a first project, but if you have some experience go for it.

An M20 for $300? Does that include all the accessories, starter, alternator, intake manifold, AFM, wiring harness, ECU? If so, I'd like to buy a dozen.

A driveshaft for $90? Including the cutting , welding and rebalancing? Let us in on the secret please.

The miscellaneous stuff adds up too. Fuel pump and high pressure line, radiator, oil cooler, coolant hoses, electric fan, battery relocation, speedo recalibration, tach modification, and a zillion other bits and pieces. Believe me... they add up. And that is not counting your time. 100 hours? Not counting suspension or body work. Just the conversion.

[tinkwithanr]

$300 for an M20 isn't unrealistic. Look on e30tech or the likes, the trick is to try and find one locally. I got a bare engine (complete but no accessories) for $50..

[Guest]

An M20 for $300? Does that include all the accessories, starter, alternator, intake manifold, AFM, wiring harness, ECU? If so, I'd like to buy a dozen.

A driveshaft for $90? Including the cutting , welding and rebalancing? Let us in on the secret please.

The miscellaneous stuff adds up too. Fuel pump and high pressure line, radiator, oil cooler, coolant hoses, electric fan, battery relocation, speedo recalibration, tach modification, and a zillion other bits and pieces. Believe me... they add up. And that is not counting your time. 100 hours? Not counting suspension or body work. Just the conversion.

Why ya gotta be so rude. Since he bought that M20(complete for slightly less than $300) back in December, two more have come up on CL for the same price.

Driveshaft shortened for $90, yep,. I called a shop that specializes in 4x4 driveline and that's what they quoted me. It's just shortened and balanced, not rebuilt($380 from a euro-specializing driveline shop in PDX)

Radiator = rabbit ($40), oil cooler+hoses come with motor, e-fan $10 at JY, battery relocation $10-$30, Speedo from E30 or electric after market $10-$100. Yep, they do add up, but it's not impossible to do and frankly I think he will stay around $2000. He'll be over but most of the extra cost will be non-swap related parts like the seats he just bought, tires, exterior body work/paint, performance suspension/brake components, etc...

[Pierre]

An M20 for $300? Does that include all the accessories, starter, alternator, intake manifold, AFM, wiring harness, ECU? If so, I'd like to buy a dozen.

A driveshaft for $90? Including the cutting , welding and rebalancing? Let us in on the secret please.

The miscellaneous stuff adds up too. Fuel pump and high pressure line, radiator, oil cooler, coolant hoses, electric fan, battery relocation, speedo recalibration, tach modification, and a zillion other bits and pieces. Believe me... they add up. And that is not counting your time. 100 hours? Not counting suspension or body work. Just the conversion.

Why ya gotta be so rude. Since he bought that M20(complete for slightly less than $300) back in December, two more have come up on CL for the same price.

Driveshaft shortened for $90, yep,. I called a shop that specializes in 4x4 driveline and that's what they quoted me. It's just shortened and balanced, not rebuilt($380 from a euro-specializing driveline shop in PDX)

Radiator = rabbit ($40), oil cooler+hoses come with motor, e-fan $10 at JY, battery relocation $10-$30, Speedo from E30 or electric after market $10-$100. Yep, they do add up, but it's not impossible to do and frankly I think he will stay around $2000. He'll be over but most of the extra cost will be non-swap related parts like the seats he just bought, tires, exterior body work/paint, performance suspension/brake components, etc...

My apologies if I sounded rude. That was not my intention.

I scour Craigslist regularly (along with other classified) and if I see an M20 for $300, it's usually of questionable background and never complete for a swap. And location is important. A $300 engine 2 states over becomes a $600 once it arrives at your door. Then you put it in, do all the work, start it up and you hear noises, smoke bellows out etc.

Yes, you may be able to shorten a driveshaft for $90, but you need 2 GOOD donor driveshafts to begin with.

Ideally, you need a donor vehicle. (That's what I did.)

I did the swap. I read a lot and researched a lot about it before taking the plunge. A lot of people offered their opinions based on what they heard from someone else. I thought I knew what I was getting into based on what I learned on this board. It did not turn out to be as simple or as cheap as I expected. I know what I had to do and what I paid. Someone else may have done certain things differently and I would love to hear of such experiences.

Are your numbers what you actually paid for your M20 conversion? Did you add it up? Is the conversion complete? Is the car running and driving? Issues still lingering?

One more thing. I have driven several M20 2002s. Some of them are AWESOME. Some are ... not so great. They run warm, or cold, (or both) vibrate, shake, track rods touch things, oil pans touch things, instrumentation is inaccurate or non-operational, transmission touches the tunnel, the exhaust is touching something, the shift lever is too far one way or another, throttle travel is too short and on and on.

Cheers.

[Guest]

I know what I had to do and what I paid. Someone else may have done certain things differently and I would love to hear of such experiences.

Are your numbers what you actually paid for your M20 conversion? Did you add it up? Is the conversion complete? Is the car running and driving? Issues still lingering?

One more thing. I have driven several M20 2002s. Some of them are AWESOME. Some are ... not so great. They run warm, or cold, (or both) vibrate, shake, track rods touch things, oil pans touch things, instrumentation is inaccurate or non-operational, transmission touches the tunnel, the exhaust is touching something, the shift lever is too far one way or another, throttle travel is too short and on and on.

Cheers.

I should have added the sf, I was joking more than anything. Yes, the motors were local and complete with only ~160k on them. Shorten the 325i driveshaft, not sure if the back half is the right length, if not then combine it with the factory '02 driveshaft.

I don't expect it to be as cheap as potentialM20 thinks it will be, but I believe the full swap will easily be completed for $2000, just not the whole car rebuild. Those prices are what he paid, or slightly greater. It's not complete, but I do have a very good idea of all the little parts he'll need since my turbo car started as a shell and I've had to purchase all the little parts along the way.

I totally agree on the build quality. I love fabbing stuff and I'm very careful about making sure everything lines up and is in working order. I made three sets of jigs for each motor mount before I was satisfied with it and then I've made multiple drill guides so they're switched out every 10 sets to make sure the holes always line up(I also kept the first set as a check).

At the very least I can say the exhaust, tranny, and oil pan will clear + the throttle will have the right cable travel(I spent stupid amounts of time doing throttle pedal linearity calculations/different designs for my school's formula sae car)

Oh, and his will be awesome because if he doesn't get into med school on the west coast then I'll probably be storing it/driving it and I couldn't deal with all those little things day after day.

[Deutschman]

i got my m20 for free. met a guy who had a '91 325i he wanted gone and i only had to pay for transportation which i payed for by parting out the rest of the car.

i am using a g240 out of a 318i for $250. need to find a LSD, but i think i will wait till after the m20 is in and running.

those are the three big costs. i still need my drive shaft shortened and the correct flanges welded on. exhaust, throttle cable, clutch cable, trans mount the list goes on. things add up very fast. i will definitely be over $2000 when done. most likely around $3500. i am how ever upgrading a few things along the way.

i am not sure you could do this for way cheap if you owned your own welder, could do all the work your self, and kept the motor and everything ells bone stock.

[TobyB]

funny, i too was thinking that all the little bits would probably end up costing

more than the big chunks

(I also have a 'free' e30 sitting in the driveway. The PO's gonna send me

the title 'any day now'. Its been there almost a year... )

to do it right.

You CAN just whack a chunk out of a BMW driveshaft- it does work afterwards.

Not sure if everyone would WANT to, but there it is. I've done it. It works.

But it's all the damn $25 hoses and $65 vacuum parts and blah and blah and

more blah.

Because a 'free' car that's 25 years old needs new hoses, the injectors cleaned,

blah blah blah...

heh

t

[Deutschman]

thats exactly right. it is all the blah blah blah parts that get you. when you first sit down and think about it you only ever see the big parts in your mind. what about all the new hose clamps, hoses, seals, bolts, nuts, fluids, tools you brake, shop towels, cut off wheels, sand paper, food, beer?