325i E30 front subframe into 2002?

[Derek]

This is probably a dumb question. . .

I am currently doing a M20 swap into my '73 tii (very unpristine car to start with so no great loss). I'm also installing the E30 rear subframe.

Before I send my donor 325 to the scrap yard, is there any use in considering putting the front subframe, along with front steer rack, into the 2002? Obviously the track is wider (~1.5") and all mounts will have to be fabricated - but has anyone looked into this?

I would like to do a rack and pinion conversion anyway and this provides a platform with the geometry already dialed in. If it works, it may not be that much more effort than fabricating motor mounts and other goodies to fit the M20 onto the 2002 subframe.

Steering aside, is there any benefit/detriment to doing this (assuming it can be done with reasonable fabrication efforts)? Is the one piece control arm in the E30 superior to the control arm/radius rod of the 2002?

I appreciate any thoughts and input,

Derek

[Harv]

How/where you going to mount the CAB's?

I think that might be the biggest problem. The geometry must be spot on.

John

[Mike_B]

This whole exercise seems like way more work than building up a set of motor mounts to work off the 2002 subframe.

[Derek]

Thanks for the quick reply and remind me to talk to you about wide body options . . . but that's a ways away.

I am open to advice from those that are better fabricators than me, but to mount the CABs I figured that I would weld up a jig that mounts to all the existing brackets, strut towers and the subframe cross (maybe the motor mounts?). Then when the front subframe is in the 2002, mount the jig and locate all brackets.

It might make sense to weld up the control arms on the E30 with braces to the sub cross, cut around all mounting brackets and strut tower and just transfer everything to the 2002 and then weld in the brackets and strut tower with some reinforcement. Then grind away the brace welds or buy new wishbones.

This should keep all geometry 'close enough' to adjust with camber/toe plates.

[JohnW]

FWIW, I always found the steering on my 91 318is to be slow and lifeless (as opposed to the 2002, which is slow but offers good feedback). An e36 rack would be better.

Personally, I don't think it would be worth the trouble to try to graft the subframe to the chassis. At some point, I'd feel like the car becomes too much of an e30 and not enough of a 2002 anymore.

Btw, what color is your tii? A rusty '73 Malaga tii I used to own went to the Northeast (from Virginia) about 10 years ago and I've always wondered what happened to that car.

Good luck with the swap. You will love driving the m20-powered 2002.

[Guest Anonymous]

Derek, I believe you called me a couple of weeks ago. Have you any plans for your rear tii trailing arms and maybe subframe? I do travel down your way to Glassb. sometime and would like to see your project somtime if possible. Happy motoring! 413 563 1829 after 9pm best.

[Derek]

FWIW, I always found the steering on my 91 318is to be slow and lifeless (as opposed to the 2002, which is slow but offers good feedback). An e36 rack would be better.

Personally, I don't think it would be worth the trouble to try to graft the subframe to the chassis. At some point, I'd feel like the car becomes too much of an e30 and not enough of a 2002 anymore.

Btw, what color is your tii? A rusty '73 Malaga tii I used to own went to the Northeast (from Virginia) about 10 years ago and I've always wondered what happened to that car.

Good luck with the swap. You will love driving the m20-powered 2002.

Thanks, JohnW:

Point taken about the E36 rack. Thing is, if I mount the E30 front subframe, swapping to a E36 or even Z3 rack is easy. Installing these in the 2002 is impossible.

It does pain me to drift farther and farther from the stock 2002, but the E30 is very similar in suspension geometry. The 2002 body style was my first car love as a kid. Call it a mid-life crisis, but I have never built a very fast car.

This car may have been yours. I can count at least 3 colors- Charmonix, Malaga or Verona, and finally, Tundra. The rust is fairly light. The car has sat for about 10 years.

[JohnW]

Thanks, JohnW:

Point taken about the E36 rack. Thing is, if I mount the E30 front subframe, swapping to a E36 or even Z3 rack is easy. Installing these in the 2002 is impossible.

It does pain me to drift farther and farther from the stock 2002, but the E30 is very similar in suspension geometry. The 2002 body style was my first car love as a kid. Call it a mid-life crisis, but I have never built a very fast car.

This car may have been yours. I can count at least 3 colors- Charmonix, Malaga or Verona, and finally, Tundra. The rust is fairly light. The car has sat for about 10 years.

It's probably not the same tii; mine was an original-color, but very faded Malaga car, but had a lot of rust in the trunk, rear rockers and rear fenders. The front clip had been replaced at some point and was rust-free and the floors were surprisingly clean.

I agree with you that the suspension geometery is very similar between the 02 and the e30. If you're going to swap in anything that's not original, this is probably the way to go. I always kind of viewed the e30 as sort of the final evolution of the 2002, and in many ways it really improves upon the original idea.

Keep us posted on your progress.

[ahlem]

Could you make a cut just above the frame rails from front to back and graft the rails with the CAB mounting points to the 2002? I have a 1987 325is waiting to donate some parts to repair an e30 M3 and this looks like a possible deal. Not sure just how the top strut mount situation would work. I thought someone did something like this once upon a time and ended up with a 5 lug 2002 with e30 M3 type parts. You would hopefully retain the fender mounting locations.

[TobyB]

It's not a dumb question, but the dimensions are so different that it

will be a LOT of work. For something that's not really

any better than the 2002. Well, except for the rack, I guess.

Which HAS been done- Nick Vyse, maybe? with an E21 rack.

And now owning both an E30 and an E36... errr.... well, I like my 2002

better every time I work on it...

t