engine and drivetrain Weber 32/36 Carb Frustration

[jjbunn]

Background: this is a '73 with the original engine, pertronix points and a Weber 32/36 with water choke. The car hasn't been driven regularly for some years, but everything "works" - I've been mainly doing r&r on things like new plugs, wires, oil, filters, seals, setting timing, etc.. Now I am ready to go out on the road, but have a couple of issues before I do so. The main issue is I seem to be running very rich - there is grey smoke out of the exhaust once the engine starts to warm up, and the plugs are sooty. I'd like to put some miles on the engine before getting too hung up on tuning etc., but the state it's in is producing too much smoke to drive without a gas mask 

 

My feeling is that the carb is set up incorrectly. Here's what I have:

 

1) brass floats: level set to 41mm when valve closed, measured from gasket to extremity of both floats, level set to 51mm when floats at bottom of travel

 

2) idle jets: 50 on primary, 55 on secondary (I also tried 60 on primary, but that was predictably worse)

 

3) main jets: 125 on primary, 127 on secondary

 

4) correction jets: 175 and 170

 

5) emulsion: both F50

 

6) discharge: 50

 

I start with the idle mixture screw 1 1/2 turns out from fully closed - the engine starts (but without enthusiasm). Turning clockwise (leaner) the engine starts to stumble. Engine seems happiest when the screw is about 2 turns out - which is apparently OK according to what I've read.

 

Vacuum on the manifold is 20mmHg at idle. I'm pretty confident I have no vacuum leaks. Air filter is removed for these tests.

 

Observation: before the engine warms up, if I open the choke butterflys by hand, revs go up. This suggest that I'm running too rich, doesn't it? After the engine warms up, butterflys open completely, as they should.

 

By the time the engine is warmed up, the guff from the exhaust is choking! 

 

Any comments/suggestions? Any local experts in Pasadena who'd be prepared to take a look? I feel like I may be missing something basic related or unrelated to the carb!

 

 

 

[GreenSwede]

I´ve been messing with my 32/36. Also running rich. Got the tip here to check the power valve, did you do that?

 

Suck on the corresponding hole in the lid of the carb and see if you can suck the valve down and make it stay. I used a rubber hose pressed against the hole and sucked till I turned blue, but I got the darn thing to move, and stay.

 

Or is the idle set to high, or the throttle plates adjusted in a wrong way, so that they are slightly open letting the enrichment holes have a whiff?

 

(And I´m giving up on mine, I´m ordering a 38/38 instead.)

Edited September 30, 2013 by GreenSwede

[mikebontoft]

giving up on mine too, sorry... just getting another engine (though mine smokes oil) but mine does have similar trouble.

Edited September 30, 2013 by mikebontoft

[tbrduc]

NO! Don;t give up. I have the same carb..DGAV 32-36 from Redline, with a "fake" Pertronix and stock dizzy and stock air cleaner.

There are plenty of threads here about setting these up.

Look for the main article by C. D.iesel. It used to be in a catagory called "Archives" but I can;t find that right now either.

He's a non-nonsense, do it properly the first time kinda guy but his formula works.

My '76er starts and idles mostly fine and rips plenty good enough!

 

I can't find the original 'formula' since the FAQ was re-organized, but I did find this partial:

CD´s Primary - idle 60 main 140 air corr 145

CD´s secondary -  idle 55 main 170  air corr 175

Edited September 30, 2013 by tbrduc

[jjbunn]

NO! Don;t give up. I have the same carb..DGAV 32-36 from Redline, with a "fake" Pertronix and stock dizzy and stock air cleaner.

There are plenty of threads here about setting these up.

Look for the main article by C. D.iesel. It used to be in a catagory called "Archives" but I can;t find that right now either.

He's a non-nonsense, do it properly the first time kinda guy but his formula works.

My '76er starts and idles mostly fine and rips plenty good enough!

 

I can't find the original 'formula' since the FAQ was re-organized, but I did find this partial:

CD´s Primary - idle 60 main 140 air corr 145

CD´s secondary -  idle 55 main 170  air corr 175

Thanks for the encouragement - that's two votes for throwing it in the bin, and one against 

 

I have read most of c.d.iesel's posts on this topic, but my problem remains. I don't think my problem is main jets, but I may be wrong. I did try the 60/55 idle combination already.

[dwilme]

I have the 32/36 on my 74 and rebuilt with the "plastic" floats. I bought the rebuild kit from pierce manifolds. They have some tuning info.   

 

When did you last check the brass float? Mine was running really rich because one of the pontoons was taking on gas and sinking. 

 

After I replaced the float and rebuilt it I was running rich but tinkered and adjusted with the engine really warm and it screams now at base settings, 1.5 turns out. I don't know my jet sizes (I'm a newbie) I remember seeing 160/170 on the air correctors so I assume all is stock based on the below. Also, I measured float with the plate on it's side (float dangling down) from plate base to top of the float at 41, I think plastic said 35 though. 

 

The book I have says the standard jetting for weber 32/36 DGAV are as follows:

- Main Venturi: 26/27

- Aux Venturi: 3.5/3.5

- Main Jet: 140/140

- Em Tube: F50/F50

- Air Corrector Jet: 170/160

- Idle Jet: 60/50

- Pump Jet: 50

- Float Valve: 2.0

 

This site helped me rebuild the carb and may be valuable. 

 

http://www.mk3supra.org/topic/561-guide-rebuilding-a-weber-3236-dgav-carb/

 

p.s I hear the 38/38 is really nice while still using the stock manifold (with some cutting), but why not just go all out and do dual 40's! 

 

Cheers! 

[GreenSwede]

 

 

I have read most of c.d.iesel's posts on this topic, but my problem remains.

 

Same here, I think I´ve read them all. A few times.

 

Surely it can be done, but for me it´s a bit like trying really hard to get along with an idiot - I do not want to. On the other hand, the 32/36 might just feel the same way. I might be the idiot.

 

p.s I hear the 38/38 is really nice while still using the stock manifold (with some cutting), but why not just go all out and do dual 40's! 

 

Cheers! 

 

Not going duals due to price and I´ve read you´ve sort of got to choke them for a stock engine - if you don´t to do cam and pistons they´re overkill. On the other hand you can make a 38 work on a 160hp engine, so I´m not painting myself into a corner either. Just not getting that nice sound..

Edited October 1, 2013 by GreenSwede

[mikebontoft]

make mine a vote to stick with it as well... my engine is trash too so that doesn't help it run on the Weber.

[dwilme]

Not going duals due to price and I´ve read you´ve sort of got to choke them for a stock engine - if you don´t to do cam and pistons they´re overkill. On the other hand you can make a 38 work on a 160hp engine, so I´m not painting myself into a corner either. Just not getting that nice sound..

 

I hear ya, please post the set up you use and a few pics when you do the 38/38. Then again, who can argue with more power right? I've been weighing the 38/38 vs dual 40 set up for a while. You're right, the price is high for the dual set up. 

 

Does anyone have a parts list or set up instructions for the 38/38 and Dual 40 DCOE?

[dbmw2002]

I too want the Ti dual webber setup, as soon as my money tree starts bloomin. The parts list begins and ends with a real Redline 38 special and dont go for a knock off. Pierce Manifolds has the real deal and will deliver jetted correctly. Stock manifold opened up a bit, stock linkage and stock fuel pump, not a lot of extras needed unless you are changin your choke. Now the dual Webber setup is the parts list from hell, lots of extras, fabrication and maybe they will clear the brake booster, or maybe not, and then you gotsta tune them correctly, you think a 36 32 is a challenge? So look forward to doin duals but will not even think about it just yet, not just the money but the knowlege of how to do it right

[jjbunn]

I have the 32/36 on my 74 and rebuilt with the "plastic" floats. I bought the rebuild kit from pierce manifolds. They have some tuning info.   

 

When did you last check the brass float? Mine was running really rich because one of the pontoons was taking on gas and sinking. 

 

After I replaced the float and rebuilt it I was running rich but tinkered and adjusted with the engine really warm and it screams now at base settings, 1.5 turns out. I don't know my jet sizes (I'm a newbie) I remember seeing 160/170 on the air correctors so I assume all is stock based on the below. Also, I measured float with the plate on it's side (float dangling down) from plate base to top of the float at 41, I think plastic said 35 though. 

 

The book I have says the standard jetting for weber 32/36 DGAV are as follows:

- Main Venturi: 26/27

- Aux Venturi: 3.5/3.5

- Main Jet: 140/140

- Em Tube: F50/F50

- Air Corrector Jet: 170/160

- Idle Jet: 60/50

- Pump Jet: 50

- Float Valve: 2.0

 

This site helped me rebuild the carb and may be valuable. 

 

http://www.mk3supra.org/topic/561-guide-rebuilding-a-weber-3236-dgav-carb/

 

p.s I hear the 38/38 is really nice while still using the stock manifold (with some cutting), but why not just go all out and do dual 40's! 

 

Cheers! 

I've checked the brass floats carefully - they are undamaged and do not take on gas. They are both sitting at the same height. With the cover vertical, the floats hanging down, and the tab just touching the ball bearing, I measured 41mm from the cover gasket to the base of both floats. With the cover horizontal, and the floats hanging down, the measurement was 51mm. So, as per specs.

 

The valve itself is new - the tip is clean and unscored. (It has some reddish paint on it, which is unmarked.)

 

If I look in the float bowl after the engine has been running a while, and after I remove the cover, I see maybe 15mm depth of gas. This doesn't look like a too-full amount (?).

 

I feel I'm missing something significant. My main idle jet is a 50 - perhaps this is too big?

[TobyB]

Nah, it's not your jetting.

 

If you blow into the fuel inlet, does the needle valve stop all air at that 41mm measurement?

 

If you suck on the power valve diaphragm port, does the power valve piston suck up into

the cover 1/4" or so, easily and without catching or binding?  ( a piece of vacuum tubing helps with this)

 

You can always lower your float level a bit and see what it does.  It SHOULD lean everything out.

 

t

[jjbunn]

Nah, it's not your jetting.

 

If you blow into the fuel inlet, does the needle valve stop all air at that 41mm measurement?

 

If you suck on the power valve diaphragm port, does the power valve piston suck up into

the cover 1/4" or so, easily and without catching or binding?  ( a piece of vacuum tubing helps with this)

 

You can always lower your float level a bit and see what it does.  It SHOULD lean everything out.

 

t

I'll do these tests and report back. While I have the cover off I'll try bending the tab to decrease the level (i.e. increase from 41mm at shut), right?

 

Great suggestions - thanks!

[jjbunn]

I'm sucking on the hole circled in yellow (attached image), but the piston/spring isn't moving. The air passage itself is clear as I blew it out with compressed air both ways after removing the three screws and the piston.

 

What do you think?

[TobyB]

I think, if that's not moving, that your power valve is always open.

 

If air's leaking, that diaphragm is shot.  If it's not leaking, then the

diaphraghm/ rod is stuck.

 

They rebuild kits I have purchased came with a new one (Royze)

but it's been a while since I did one.

 

t