engine and drivetrain Shifting too fast

[asifallasleep]

I've been driving my 74 2002 like a modern car as far as shifting speed. I've recently developed 2nd gear pop out but today i kept the clutch pressed in a few seconds longer after changing gears and the popping out ceased. Those few seconds seem like an eternity. Wondering how everyone else is shifting.

I also put in a much heavier weight transmission fluid.

[02for2]

It's a mechanical system and there is a set limit to the speed you can shift w/o messing with the internals. Synchros do need time to 'mesh'.

Sounds to me like you're rushing the 1/2 or 2/3 shift and experiencing premature wear.

Cheers!

[asifallasleep]

It's a mechanical system and there is a set limit to the speed you can shift w/o messing with the internals. Synchros do need time to 'mesh'.

Sounds to me like you're rushing the 1/2 or 2/3 shift and experiencing premature wear.

Cheers!

i'm typically shifting early in 2nd gear (2k-2.5k rpm's). This is my first 4 speed. I've always had 5 and 6 speeds. i had an earlier thread about when to shift but i was unaware that shifting prematurely could cause wear and perhaps the issues i'm having now.

[TobyB]

Yup.

Clutch in, shift to neutral,

beat,

shift to next higher gear.

Double- clutching the other way also helps a lot.

It's not the number of gears- the 320 5- speed's not much better.

And you're right- the E36 trans shifts with about

a 1/4 beat- or a beat at 240 bpm!

Except in 5th, for some reason, when you skip 4th... that synchro's

not as butch.

t

[asifallasleep]

Yup.

Clutch in, shift to neutral,

beat,

shift to next higher gear.

Double- clutching the other way also helps a lot.

It's not the number of gears- the 320 5- speed's not much better.

And you're right- the E36 trans shifts with about

a 1/4 beat- or a beat at 240 bpm!

Except in 5th, for some reason, when you skip 4th... that synchro's

not as butch.

t

wow, it all makes sense. i've been driving sticks for over 20 years and it's always been 2nd nature. this is my first older car. so i'm damaging it by shifting it like i'm driving a modern car. I have to granny shift!!! can't wait until tomorrow to drive the car to see if this solves many of my issues. Thanks. Sometimes the obvious isn't so obvious until someone mentions it.

[asifallasleep]

Yup.

Clutch in, shift to neutral,

beat,

shift to next higher gear.

Double- clutching the other way also helps a lot.

It's not the number of gears- the 320 5- speed's not much better.

And you're right- the E36 trans shifts with about

a 1/4 beat- or a beat at 240 bpm!

Except in 5th, for some reason, when you skip 4th... that synchro's

not as butch.

t

wow, it all makes sense. i've been driving sticks for over 20 years and it's always been 2nd nature. this is my first older car. so i'm damaging it by shifting it like i'm driving a modern car. I have to granny shift!!! can't wait until tomorrow to drive the car to see if this solves many of my issues. Thanks. Sometimes the obvious isn't so obvious until someone mentions it.

well i found out this morning that if i stay in first gear until 3.5-4K rpms that i have no 2nd gear pop out issues at all.

i also think i've been disengaging the clutch a tad too quickly on all my shifts. if i stay on the clutch a tad longer after each shift i can feel the car really solidly going into each gear. very smooth. thanks so much.

[Guest Anonymous]

I've been driving my 74 2002 like a modern car as far as shifting speed. I've recently developed 2nd gear pop out but today i kept the clutch pressed in a few seconds longer after changing gears and the popping out ceased. Those few seconds seem like an eternity. Wondering how everyone else is shifting.

I also put in a much heavier weight transmission fluid.

What do you mean by HEAVY? And why?

Do a search. There are plenty of posts on this topic. Most use REdline MTL, or even ATF or 30w oil. Do you think your engine benefits from heavier weight oil? It may cushion things, but it also creates more drag. Same with your transmission. You want to be able to use a stop watch to determine synchro engagement? Run 140w!

These manual transmissions may be chronologically old, but they really do not require much more care than manual transmissions manufactured today. The fact that so many are still around today is testament to this fact. Nor has transmission design changed that dramatically in the last 40 years, except in some cases, the materials have cheapened . If you are speed shifting I wouldnt expect prolonged life from any transmission.

Could that have something to do with why you went through so many other cars? (Please don't say you jumped curbs with an AMC Sportabout) lol

[Guest Anonymous]

I've been driving my 74 2002 like a modern car as far as shifting speed. I've recently developed 2nd gear pop out but today i kept the clutch pressed in a few seconds longer after changing gears and the popping out ceased. Those few seconds seem like an eternity. Wondering how everyone else is shifting.

I also put in a much heavier weight transmission fluid.

What do you mean by HEAVY? And why?

Do a search. There are plenty of posts on this topic. Most use REdline MTL, or even ATF or 30w oil. Do you think your engine benefits from heavier weight oil? It may cushion things, but it also creates more drag. Same with your transmission. You want to be able to use a stop watch to determine synchro engagement? Run 140w!

These manual transmissions may be chronologically old, but they really do not require much more care than manual transmissions manufactured today. The fact that so many are still around today is testament to this fact. Nor has transmission design changed that dramatically in the last 40 years, except in some cases, the materials have cheapened . If you are speed shifting I wouldnt expect prolonged life from any transmission.

Could that have something to do with why you went through so many other cars? (Please don't say you jumped curbs with an AMC Sportabout) lol

[TobyB]

And yeah, you have to be more deliberate with the clutch, as you've found.

And 140 does add half a beat!

All this said, the 4- speed that David Lumbra rebuilt for my race car

shifted MUCH faster than anything else I've ever driven.

I'm sure some of that is down to his expertise, but some has

to be due to the new parts he put in!

heh

t

[asifallasleep]

well all my attempts to sort out the pop issue without changing my transmission went for not; well, except for the knowledge that i need to be more deliberate in my shifting. purchased a 4 speed from another forum member and had it installed. runs great. no more pop outs. had shifter rebuild as well.

[asifallasleep]

I've been driving my 74 2002 like a modern car as far as shifting speed. I've recently developed 2nd gear pop out but today i kept the clutch pressed in a few seconds longer after changing gears and the popping out ceased. Those few seconds seem like an eternity. Wondering how everyone else is shifting.

I also put in a much heavier weight transmission fluid.

What do you mean by HEAVY? And why?

Do a search. There are plenty of posts on this topic. Most use REdline MTL, or even ATF or 30w oil. Do you think your engine benefits from heavier weight oil? It may cushion things, but it also creates more drag. Same with your transmission. You want to be able to use a stop watch to determine synchro engagement? Run 140w!

These manual transmissions may be chronologically old, but they really do not require much more care than manual transmissions manufactured today. The fact that so many are still around today is testament to this fact. Nor has transmission design changed that dramatically in the last 40 years, except in some cases, the materials have cheapened . If you are speed shifting I wouldnt expect prolonged life from any transmission.

Could that have something to do with why you went through so many other cars? (Please don't say you jumped curbs with an AMC Sportabout) lol

I love cars so i change them often. Ha ha, they aren't abused. That would be uncivilized!