tires and wheels SDS tuning help

[Turb02]

Ok, although Im nowhere near ready for tuning the thing since my motor isnt build yet but I need to know a few things.

What are the values that you used for the break in period? Was it turbo'd after breaking in the motor? I would like to break the motor in before slapping the turbo on there and I know that I will have to find an exhaust manifold that isnt turbo ready in order to do this.

The reason I want to know is because I dont want to have to do a ring job shortly after I install the motor. I know there are a few on here that use SDS and would like to know how you all did the break in.

If you have any values that you have saved for the break in, it would do wonders for me if you could help me on this.

My setup will be:

292 cam

forged pistons ~8.2-5:1 cr

dual springs and oversozed intake and exhaust valves

light port and polish head

318 intake manifold and ??? throttle body

Holset HX35 turbo (split pulse custom tubular manifold)

The SDS system that I bought was from a gentleman in WA and it came off a E21 turbo M10 with 100 hours of dyno time that he stated put down ~240 to the wheels. His setup was similar but had a lower cr using VW pistons and (i think) a T3 or T3/4.

I know its a bad idea to use someone elses tune since the setups are different and could terminally damage my motor so I think Im going to reset the system and start from scratch. I still have all his values because he was so kind as to have everything printed off and even sent dyno sheets (almost 2in thick of paper from tuning and dyno data)

Thanks for reading this and thanks in advance!

Dane K

[PatAllen]

Hi turb02.

It seems to me that you still want to do the things "backward".

theses 100hours of dyno are totaly useless, as many others already told you. I dont get it why you keep on telling us that.

Break-in period of an engine should be done with same settings as what you plan to use in real life.

Just dont abuse the engine that much.

-dont make it rev past 4k

-dont hesitate to use modest boost to properly seat the rings for their intended use.

I dont see the point of altering any setting during break-in, other than setting the rev limiter quite low

last time i opened my turbo motor i didnt cared that much. I went out of the garage by doing a 500' brake burn. car is running strong with the same engine since year 2002.

[Lee]

Just as Pat mentionned, there is no different setting between breaking in and regular use. I hope you didn't pay any premium because the SDS had 100 hour of dyno. That dyno is good only for an exactly similar engine.

I suggest that you visit th SDS website, download a few of their mappings, and try to understand them. It will hel you a lot.

Also, 8.5 pistons and 292 cam are maybe not good parts for a Turbo motor. Why do you want cam with that much overlap as it will allow more pressure to escape thru the valves, while you have pistons with relatively too much CR to allow much force feeding. If I were you, I would reproduce an engine exactly like the one that was dyno'ed. No need to reinvent the wheel, it will cost you much less at the end, and you'll get 240hp...

[PatAllen]

Just as Pat mentionned, there is no different setting between breaking in and regular use. I hope you didn't pay any premium because the SDS had 100 hour of dyno. That dyno is good only for an exactly similar engine.

I suggest that you visit th SDS website, download a few of their mappings, and try to understand them. It will hel you a lot.

Also, 8.5 pistons and 292 cam are maybe not good parts for a Turbo motor. Why do you want cam with that much overlap as it will allow more pressure to escape thru the valves, while you have pistons with relatively too much CR to allow much force feeding. If I were you, I would reproduce an engine exactly like the one that was dyno'ed. No need to reinvent the wheel, it will cost you much less at the end, and you'll get 240hp...

yeah, Lee is right about the camo...you will push most of the boost right thru the exhaust...less will remain into the combustion chamber, you will have a very nice 5mpg car the SDS settings will look very weird under boost. you will have to increase your afr a lot and you will not see why...unless you understand what we try to tell you.

[Turb02]

Just as Pat mentionned, there is no different setting between breaking in and regular use. I hope you didn't pay any premium because the SDS had 100 hour of dyno. That dyno is good only for an exactly similar engine.

I suggest that you visit th SDS website, download a few of their mappings, and try to understand them. It will hel you a lot.

Also, 8.5 pistons and 292 cam are maybe not good parts for a Turbo motor. Why do you want cam with that much overlap as it will allow more pressure to escape thru the valves, while you have pistons with relatively too much CR to allow much force feeding. If I were you, I would reproduce an engine exactly like the one that was dyno'ed. No need to reinvent the wheel, it will cost you much less at the end, and you'll get 240hp...

yeah, Lee is right about the camo...you will push most of the boost right thru the exhaust...less will remain into the combustion chamber, you will have a very nice 5mpg car the SDS settings will look very weird under boost. you will have to increase your afr a lot and you will not see why...unless you understand what we try to tell you.

Thanks for the info guys. I have been searching for more info on a turbo friendly cam and cant seem to find one. What is a good cam to use? I chose the 292 because over on e30tech.com there are several turbo M10's and some are using the 292 cam.

Making the engine exactly like toe PO of the SDS could be done however, he used VW pistons that would require either custom rods or a lot of decking. I didnt pay any more for the SDS because it was dyno tuned. 825 shipped with all sensors and crank pulley minus IAT and coolant sensor. He was using a smaller turbo than what I have and I dont want to get a different turbo.

[Lee]

Use a stock cam. As for copying the engine, it doesn't mean you use the exact same parts. If the previous owner used 7.5:1 VW pistons, you can get better results with 7.5:1 forged JE pistons. Try to get the same CR and same compressor. That will be a great start. You will probably build two engines. The one one which you will experiment, and the final one.

[Turb02]

Use a stock cam. As for copying the engine, it doesn't mean you use the exact same parts. If the previous owner used 7.5:1 VW pistons, you can get better results with 7.5:1 forged JE pistons. Try to get the same CR and same compressor. That will be a great start. You will probably build two engines. The one one which you will experiment, and the final one.

I understand that I dont have to buy the exact brand and all and I DONT want to build 2 engines. He used mahle vw drag racing pistons (thats what they are called on the site that I cant think of). Pistons were 90.5 mm and the cr was 8.2:1. Itold my mechanic that is what I wanted and he couldnt understand why I would bore it to almost to the max on the first rebuild. He also stated that the car would have to low cr for off boost response. I really dont think it will be off boost that much

So a stock cam works well enough to get almost 300 ponies?

[Lee]

So a stock cam works well enough to get almost 300 ponies?

Start with 240hp. Pat had that and it was a lot of work. Don't hold on to parts only because you have them. They may not suitable to reach your goal(s).

[PatAllen]

Just as Pat mentionned, there is no different setting between breaking in and regular use. I hope you didn't pay any premium because the SDS had 100 hour of dyno. That dyno is good only for an exactly similar engine.

I suggest that you visit th SDS website, download a few of their mappings, and try to understand them. It will hel you a lot.

Also, 8.5 pistons and 292 cam are maybe not good parts for a Turbo motor. Why do you want cam with that much overlap as it will allow more pressure to escape thru the valves, while you have pistons with relatively too much CR to allow much force feeding. If I were you, I would reproduce an engine exactly like the one that was dyno'ed. No need to reinvent the wheel, it will cost you much less at the end, and you'll get 240hp...

yeah, Lee is right about the camo...you will push most of the boost right thru the exhaust...less will remain into the combustion chamber, you will have a very nice 5mpg car the SDS settings will look very weird under boost. you will have to increase your afr a lot and you will not see why...unless you understand what we try to tell you.

Thanks for the info guys. I have been searching for more info on a turbo friendly cam and cant seem to find one. What is a good cam to use? I chose the 292 because over on e30tech.com there are several turbo M10's and some are using the 292 cam.

Making the engine exactly like toe PO of the SDS could be done however, he used VW pistons that would require either custom rods or a lot of decking. I didnt pay any more for the SDS because it was dyno tuned. 825 shipped with all sensors and crank pulley minus IAT and coolant sensor. He was using a smaller turbo than what I have and I dont want to get a different turbo.

a good turbo cam is one with a lot of lift and duration and the least amount of overlap...hard to find.

stock cam is the best believe me !!

what kinda power you want to do officialy??

unless you plan to run over 275hp the stock cam and a 318intake has proven to work realy good in my situation.

You wont gain that much with a wild cam on a turbo motor as compared to a wild cam on a high rev n.a. motor, considering that you want the turbo set-up to make torque, not stratospheric rpm hp.

[Turb02]

My goal is 275 whp. however I can get there with the HX35 and the SDS is what I hope to find out. So a stock cam will work great with the 318 fuel rail and intake manifold? What is a good throttle body?

So everyone is saying that the tune on the SDS is a good start?

What would I have to do to the tuning to be able to use it for my build?

[PatAllen]

cfm at that kind of power makes me think anything around 60mm throtle is good enough.

I know some use a 5 series iirc throtle. i use one from a nissan stanza and measure like 63mm.

if you go too big your car will be on/off on the throtle.

[Schweineback]

Are you building a street or a race car? Your demanding a lot from that lil' old engine. What will boosting it to 300hp do to low end torque?

[Turb02]

Its gonna be a weekend car and nice day driver with the track in mind.

The turbo that I am using has been used before and allows boost to build quite early so I dont feel that the low end will suffer that bad.

SO using the stock cam will work best for the application. Check.

Probably going to use a tb from the 535 as others have used before.

For the SDS, I should use the tune that is existing? I want to be sure of this because tax season is here and I will be getting my motor built and would like to get it running this summer.

[Lee]

Hi Turbo Buddy.

as you know, setting tire pressure on the track needs a pyrometer to get accurate specs. Same with your engine. Only a wideband O2 sensor, or exhaust pyrometers will tell you if your engine mangemenent settings are okay. Don't guess, always monitor your combustion. A $350 gizmo that will save you $5000 motor from grenading from a lean condition.

[Turb02]

I had planned on getting the LC-1. Which brings another question. The SDS requires an O2 sensor. Where does that one go and do I use a different one for the LC-1? If so, where does that one go? I have heard that the LC-1 O2 would go right after the turbo, or is that backwards and the SDS one go there?