318i parts list

[robsanab]

I found some 318i parts for my FI conversion. In order to tell this guy what I need I have compiled a list from the FAQ and various posts (there's so much info it's get confusing). I’m a little lame at knowing exactly what some of these things are or what they look like. So please let me know if there is anything else that would be nice to have:

Oh, FYI – I am using MS from a local shop who will make the box & wiring harness… so I don’t need those items. According to my MS guy he will need Vacuum sensor, intake air temp, water temp, 02 sensor, TPS (from 02again setup) and RPM out of my Crane box (evidently this can be done with the newer MS).

1) Intake Manifold (do I need the “cold start sensor” on the manifold?)

2) fuel rail

3) injectors and fuel regulator (or is it best just to by these new?)

4) water bypass pipe (Is this the hard pipe that runs under manifold to heater?)

5) water inlet (same as coolant neck?) with sensors

6) As many of the coolant hoses as possible (so I can at least know what shape to buy)

7) throttle cable connector at manifold (although I have seen posts with various other ideas, so this may not help)

8) Intake air boot

As I understand, I don’t need the following for these reasons:

1) throttle body (because I’ll use a 325i)

2) Air flow meter (not sure why. MS will use other means according to MS guy)

3) Intake air controller (I’ll use an 02again adapter with jeep stepper)

4) TPS (I’ll use an 02again adapter for Nissan TPS)

5) Fuel pump (will use other model intank or external)

Is there anything else off this 318i that is good like the battery cable for rear battery mounting and ?

Need to get him a complete list soon, so thanks for your help!

[///mChris]

That's a pretty good list.

What are you doing for spark? A single coil and the stock distributor? I'm a big advocate of either a miata wasted spark or multiple coils.

The cold start injector isn't necessary.

Injectors- I like buying new or refurb ones so I know they are good. Same with pressure regulator.

The water bypass tube is the hard line that runs under the manifold and connects the heater to the coolant neck on the head.

I'm curious who your MS guy is and what he is charging you.

[robsanab]

That's a pretty good list.

What are you doing for spark? A single coil and the stock distributor? I'm a big advocate of either a miata wasted spark or multiple coils.

I'm curious who your MS guy is and what he is charging you.

his name is Vedran. his company is SpitfireEFI

I don't know if I could explain it to you like he did to me... i just barely understand it. We talked about the multiple coils and trigger wheels, but when he saw I had a Crane ignition setup he said he could control spark from, I think he said, either from the distributor itself or the electronic box. It is a stock daily driver and if/when I need to rebuilt it will be mild.... looking for reliability, better response and good mileage is all.

I can't remember if that is the reason he suggested the MS2 box, which costs more... or if it was for idle control... I told him i wanted reliable cold weather starting.

Because of the more expensive box it would be about $450, otherwise i could save something like a hundred i think. He estimated worst case tuning would be $300... likely less. Can't remember how much for the wiring or if that was included

[///mChris]

Interesting. I've done a handful of MS conversions. I personally am a HUGE fan of coil per cylinder. If wasted spark is wanted, I'd rather use a miata coil pack than EDIS.

Are you doing MS2 or MS3?

FYI cold start is pretty easy to adjust regardless of which technology you use. You are in pretty good hands with the jeep setup.

[robsanab]

Well, like i said I could have easily misstated something. When I get closer to conversion time I will bring it up again and do some research of my own in the mean time.

My notes aren't very clear as to exactly which MS he would use... he was saying this and that about this version and that version. He threw too much info at me... it was a foreign language.

tell me more specifics about the miata pack, i haven't seen that mentioned before... Do you just mean 4 separate coil packs from a miata? which year? and why miata? Are they used with a trigger wheel sensor for rpm? The packs would then replace my single coil, crane box and distributor? The MS would take the signal from the trigger and output to this coil pack when to fire? something like that?

[///mChris]

The biggest decision is if you want to go to

1) wasted spark - you use 2 coils that pulse simultaneously

2) coil per cylinder - each cylinder has it's own coil.

The basic concept is the longer you allow the coil to charge, the more power it will put out.

check out the chart

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_Gen_Ignition.htm

If you have 1 coil it will spark 2 times in a crankshaft rotation or rpm. If you have wasted spark each coil sparks once per crankshaft rotation. If you have coil per cylinder it sparks once per camshaft rotation or every 2 crankshaft rotations.

the EDIS module puts some logic into the situation. It takes a one VR signal and converts it to a square wave signal which is good, but it is a lot of extra pieces and troubleshooting. Since analog signals are prone to noise (VR), I prefer Hall sensors. EDIS only requires 1 output from MS. This was a good adaption when you could only have 1 output from MS. This is no longer the case.

Once you allow MS to have full square wave input, you might as well give it full control over the coils. Miatas are cheap and abundant. Their coil packs are wasted spark, but controllable with MS2 directly. MS2 can have 4 coil outputs. You can use 1 output for edis or you could use 2 outputs for wasted spark miata coils.

I like the LS2 yukon coils. Check out this video by the guy who invented megasquirt.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6218245369765754251&hl=en#

Unfortunately coil per cylinder requires the computer have a way to figure out if the engine is in the compression stroke or exhaust stroke. Wasted spark just sparks at both times. This requires a cam sensor. This can be accomplished many ways. I think the easiest thing to do is lock the advance on a 2002 dizzy and use crane optical sensor to feed MS.

The major difference between ms2 and ms3 is that ms3 can handle 4 injector outputs. This way your injectors are triggered individually.

[///mChris]

By the way.. on my 9.3:1 compression 2.2L engine. I can run 60 degrees of advance on 87 octane without pinging.

I use ls2 yukon coils. These pack so much punch that there is no unburned fuel to cause pinging. I just lose power with too much advance.

The days of tuning your ignition by advancing it until it pings and backing it off a bit are gone.

[robsanab]

cool, i understood some of that... thanks for the lesson.

so which miata pack do you recommend? I see various ones from 150 to over $300.

[robsanab]

Also... anyone else?... what about other nice parts (other than FI) that I may want from the 318i car?

I found the battery cable discussion I was looking for… I’d primarily want the positive cable, distribution block and cover… and the negative cables would be convenient.

but anything else?

[///mChris]

A stock coil pack from a 91-97 would work well. It appears that many of the miata guys upgrade to LS2 coils. That would be simple and cheap. I got my yukon coils for $25 each.

[robsanab]

don't you have to support those coils? how have you done that? any pictures?

[///mChris]

The mounting is a good question. I tried a couple of things and finally went for the easiest way to get the engine started. I'm still looking for a more elegant solution.

Here are a couple I've seen

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=38080

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=39625

[///mChris]

I found the following note in the MSextra manual

Because it doesn't need a camshaft position sensor, EDIS is a particularly easy way to replace distributor ignitions when retrofitting older engines with a modern computer programmable ignition, but we now recommend directly driving the coil packs from the MS ECU using the VB921 FET's. This does away with the EDIS module, so all thats needed is the 36-1 wheel, a VR sensor and the coil packs. Please see the VR input Sensor wiring and the Direct Coil Drive Wiring section.

[Guest Anonymous]

what are you using for a relay panel -should be plenty of usable stuff on the 318

[robsanab]

what are you using for a relay panel -should be plenty of usable stuff on the 318

good idea... I'm not aware of needing something like that for FI. So the 318i has a nice relay panel that could be used?

can you describe it or location? or show it in RealOEM diagram?

what needs relays?