2760026

3 hours ago, tjones02 said:

 

... Quote ATX-Z8, the buyer “Thank you. Now the angst begins. I want to do right by this roundie. But I really like those ponies. Lots of ponies. Sleeper build?”

It’ll be a travesty if this car gets flares and any other body modifications. ?

 

Expect the CR 5-spd to soon part ways from the car, be sold off and replaced with an overdrive.

Very upsetting! For better or worse, Tom, I rarely read post-sale comments. Part of me wishes I had not seen this.

Dear ATX-Z8,

The wonder of tii's is that they are such beautifully balanced cars, from the factory.  130-ish horsepower, and a silky smooth delivery over a wide band. Antique mechanical fuel injection? You bet, but it still works amazingly well.

The Kugelfischer was perfectly designed for the factory specs, including the factory valves and 264 camshaft. Attempts to "hotten" the camshaft in tii's sacrifice the smooth power delivery and yield AFM's that just don't work over the full band. That Kugelfischer was built for a 264, a compression ratio between 9.0 and 10.0, and stock valves. Even tuning shops, such as Korman, say, for tii's, "balance, blueprint, and tune the stock engine". Unless you're jettisoning the Kugelfischer. Which robs the car of much of its tii character and value.

This car, in particular, is so early, and so complete, it would be an awful shame to select this car as a restomod. There are lots of carbureted '02's out there, of a wide range of dates. They are not rare, as this car is. If you're intent on a high-horsepower sleeper, please pick one of them. Install dual sidedraft Weber’s. Install an M20 six. Install an S14. All fine. But not in this car.

There is one way, however, that I believe one can reasonably modify a tii, and come up with some additional horsepower. It's an Alpina A4 system. They are rare, and desirable. Currently a complete system would probably sell for $10K-ish, plus you'd want to rebuild it before you install it. A complete system has a Kugelfischer pump designed for the ITB's of an A4 system. It probably produces in the vicinity of 165 horsepower. You'd carefully remove and store the original fuel injection, keeping it with the car.

I nonetheless believe this car is not the ideal recipient of an A4 system. It's future value to BMW lovers depends more on its originality than its power. But I didn't want you to think that we were "hiding" the A4 system from you!

You may see other tii's that have been modified, some wildly. 99% of these were done during the... "low period" of tii values: 1980's through early 2000's. Gorgeous restored tii's were $20K and needy tii's were $3K. So people chopped them up, and restomodded them. Times have changed. Those cars are now being returned to stock configurations. VIN 2760026 made it this far in stock form. Balance it, blueprint it, tune the hell out of it. But don't turn it into a "non-tii". If your shop says, "Sure, we'll stick a 304 in this baby, and make it sing!" they might not be the right shop for a rare early tii.

Just saying...

Regards,

Steve

It appears that ATX-Z8 does indeed know what they have. And the car seems to be in good hands.

Don't worry about mods to this car. I was joking. I am really taking this as an awesome responsibility and a fortunate buy. It needs new rings which implies rebuilding the engine to original spec. After putting the car on a lift and examining that transmission tunnel, the 5 speed looks factory.  Email from BMW stated that it could very well be (really rare in U.S. and not so much in Euro). To quote Andreas Harz BMW - "a five-speed sports gearbox was offered for the type so I don't think it would be too rare."  It was an available option according to BMW. From what I can tell about 0.5% chose it.

I was going to try to use the second set of seats to piece together usable seats for the front, but the back seat is not original.  And none of them match completely. It smells really bad inside. Carpets are worn through. So, that ship has sailed, but there will not be Recaros or other crazy changes inside. Working to get it close to the original. Side panel are in great shape and will stay as is.

I will probably leave the dash alone. I found a steering wheel on ebay.

It's obvious this car has had damage to the front. So, removing the snorkel is a change to what it was originally and I will do that.

Paint? Undecided, but this is too nice to be the original paint, It must have been resprayed at some point.  Side markers which are in sad shape will probably be removed. So, it may look more Euro which is not, in my opinion, a bad thing. 

Thank you for this^!

Andreas is extremely knowledgeable but less familiar with the U.S. market. Yes, indeed, the 5-speed was an available option. But U.S. cars were generally not "order-able". Hoffman Motors Corp. ordered more than 99% of the cars, "on spec", in a manner that they thought would be easiest to sell in the U.S. market. U.S. customers chose from the cars that arrived here, configured the way Hoffman ordered them. But that was frustrating for many, and was why some new '02's had, for instance, interiors swapped by the U.S. dealers. A minor example was my '76. I was about to walk out on the salesman, as I could not fit in a '76 with or without a sunroof. Presto, the dealer swapped the lowered front seats (only available on sunroof cars) from a new Chamonix example into a new Polaris non-sunroof car and I could, thereby, fit. Sale made!

If you were taking factory delivery through the European Delivery program, or if you were a personal friend or family member of Max Hoffman, or someone in his organization, you could actually order your own car. And those cars received some of those "never in the U.S." options. I'd guess that your car, with a factory 5-speed, was one of those special-ordered examples.

Congrats on the purchase! Keep us posted.

Regards,

Steve

Thank you, Steve

It looks like the original owner has passed.  His SSN would indicate a Pennsylvania issue.  Interesting that his car was back in Pennsylvania with Mike.

I agree, if Hoffman wanted something from BMW he was going to get it.  If Mike's research holds that this was the first Tii sold in U.S., it would make sense that a 5 SP CR would go to the front of the desirability line at some premium in price. The home address of first buyer is a mansion today.  Having no "fasten seat belt" indicator is also interesting. I would like to get the claw seatbelts back in, but the loop that mounts to the transmission tunnel is missing.

#26 is in Austin for an engine overhaul. I am gathering samples for the interior reupholster. It lives in a barn in Blanco, TX now with a very fast and heavily modified '76 2002, '72 Euro E9, 2000 M Roadster, a Z8 and Mini Cooper S.  My wife wants to add a Touring Tii and a 1600 to the mix. She's a rare redhead herself and has a lot of tomboy in her. I am blessed.

My 4 adult sons are all car nuts. So, maybe this small collection continues to thrive

George

George,

Tom (@tjones02) has been collecting data on the earliest U.S. tii's for some time. The inexplicably missing fasten seat belt indicators is a common thread shared by many of them.

The Klippan seat belt loop is an easy find. But be careful what you wish for. The non-retracting seat belts -- a.k.a. "spaghetti belts" -- are a bit of a chore to deal with! Al (@bluedevils) can restore old belts. I believe Tom's parents converted their 2760007 to retracting not long after they purchased it, because of the inconvenience of the non-retractors. The retracting belts were required by U.S. law by January 1, 1972 at the latest. At the same time the retracting belts were implemented, the upper anchor points moved to the B pillar, from the horizontal reinforcement just below the rear side window. This, too, was a safety improvement. All of this said, I'd be tempted to restore the original spaghetti belt configuration unless I intended to drive the car a lot!

I am most heartened to hear that you have been able to raise car nuts! It gives me hope!

Best regards,

Steve

Thanks for the heads up on the seatbelts. I may leave well enough alone. I "upgraded" my E9 belts to retractable which are much easier to live with. I stayed with lap belts so as to avoid interrupting the the sweeping view from the interior on the E9. I am too tall to attach  a shoulder belt lower at door height.

Thanks, again for the ideas and input

I regard this car as a group project.

George

Now that I am starting to restore this #26 I have come to some observations, conjectures, and opinions.

First, the evidence of front end collision damage at some point is pretty compelling - snorkel and only three of the five original wheels are with the car today.  I don't know what it hit, but I believe it damaged the grill, the hood (black paint underneath, two front wheels and front body panel and probably the front fenders (that black color underneath). So, the snorkel goes. It might be interesting evidence of some history, but not likely original to the car.

It's been repainted before. I will repaint it again in Malaga.

I have a Euro spec '72 E9.  The controls on the dash are similar to this car - all graphics no words.  There is also no "fasten seat belts" sign. Adds to the lore that this might be a Euro spec with a 5sp dogleg more typical of a Euro '02.  From what I can tell the initial buyer lived in a 10,000 sq ft mansion in New Jersey. At least that is what is there today.  He may have had the "pull" to get such a vehicle.

I will leave the dash as is because this conjecture fascinates me. 

On the outside, it looks U.S. spec - ride height, side markers, license plate lights. No customs inspector would see anything unusual on a cursory visual review at the dock. I like the story, too. I will likely remove side markers and move license lights to bumper. Euro spec

I have to recover the seats and install new headliner and carpets.  It's too far gone and has a pungent smell.  Door panels are good.

Wheels and hubcaps stay. Ride height goes euro. Engine is being rebuilt soon. I would like to find an extra set of syncros the the Getrag 235 for the future.

I welcome comments.

George

The new body shells, George, were primed at the factory in primers that ranged from light gray to medium green-gray. Thus, original paint should have only this under it. To illustrate this primer, below is a photo of the chassis VIN on my ‘73, VIN 2762757. Note the gray-green. Although someone applied a spectacularly cheap Malaga paint job on this Inka car, probably in the 1980’s, someone had also scraped and steamed off the Malaga paint in various areas before I bought the car in 2014. My ‘73 has this gray-green primer on the underside of the chassis as well, as the factory did not apply substantial paint to much of the underside, just a dusting of overspray from painting the rocker panels and wheel wells. The second photo below shows an original ‘02 underside.

Second, BMW paint, during the ‘02 era, was lacquer. And said lacquer had no orange peel or texture to it; it was beautifully smooth and flat — okay, there were often runs in places such as engine compartments. Lacquer finishes are rare today. Better paint jobs have less orange peel, but some texture is common.

Third, replacement body panels from BMW and many aftermarket parts suppliers were generally primed in a satin or almost semi-gloss black. If you come across black primer before you reach bare metal, you’re certainly looking at a replacement panel.

Fourth, most 50-year-old cars have been partly, largely, or completely re-painted by this time. If there is any overspray in the engine compartment, or an area under a molding, light, bumper, etc. is not painted the body color, there has been re-painting. Headlight buckets, for example, were plated by the factory, and were installed after all painting was completed. By today, most headlight buckets exhibit overspray, however, from partial and complete re-paints.

Add all these up, compare these facts to your car, and you’ll generally find that original paint is rare.

Please remove the “snorkel” from a tii before you re-paint because, if you don’t, most conversation about your car will revolve around that snorkel. It’s the piece of tii trivia known by too many people who know nothing else about tii’s. So stop that “conversation” before it begins: get a snorkelectomy!

Beginning with the 1968 model year, U.S.-spec imported cars had to have distinct U.S.-only VIN’s. If your VIN begins with 276, the car is, by definition, a U.S.-spec 1972 or 1973 tii.

As to dashboards, ca. 1972, having icons rather than lettering for the controls surrounding the instruments, there are at least two possibilities, perhaps more: (1.) as Tom @tjones02has previously noted regarding the fasten seat belt lights on the first tii’s arriving here, some of these very early tii’s might have slipped through with European dashboards; or (2.) replacement factory dashboards, from the end of ‘02 production onward, were all Euro-spec. If you bought a new dashboard in 1978, it was a Euro-spec unit and you were on your own to add or not add lettering. Good luck with that. My ‘73 currently has a one-piece dashboard (the one-piece design was only used 1974-77). I have a NOS two-piece replacement dashboard for the car. Shhh... it’s Euro-spec. ? I will have to decide, when the time comes, whether to leave it Euro or Federalize it.

That’s it for now!

Best regards,

Steve

Thanks, Steve for the insight.  You nailed the main reason why the snorkel must go.  It's a conversation I have already been subjected to.  I am tired of "it can't be a real Tii because it has a snorkel." Now it will be - "so you're trying to hide the fact that it's not a real Tii by removing the snorkel?"

As for federalized or not.  It's a no on any federalized "improvements" - side markers, 5 mph bumpers, fasten seat belts must go.  My '76 has had all of those items removed. I remember as a young man thinking all those things were great. I guess wisdom does come with age. I don't know how other states handle their removal, but here in Texas they don't seem to care.

Your Euro is looking solid.

George

I believe that the fasten seatbelt warning system was an integral part of the original inertia belt system, that no ‘02 that originally came with spaghetti belts would have. My parent’s 0007 never had a fasten seatbelt pod, there’s a service bulletin here on the FAQ that @jgerockshared a while back that shows Tii’s changed from spaghetti belts to inertia reel at 2760049. I’ve worked on 0048 and can confirm that it had spaghetti belts originally. I would install inertia reel belts for anything that gets driven even in a semi regular basis, but, collect all the parts and pieces of the spaghetti belt setup and keep them in a spares box that would go with the car to the next owner. Also, I would keep the hole in the rear “door” panels for the spaghetti shoulder belt attachment. There are period correct, like from another BMW or German car thread in plastic caps available somewhere that I’d install there to finish it off.

Taking many photos to document the previous repair work and black paint in the parts is very important. Document everything... It’s especially easy enough to do in this digital world. So yes, no more snorkel... I’m sorry that uninformed folks would talk down to you about the car having a snorkel.

Hope This Helps,

Tom

Thanks, Tom.

Mike passed the belts to me and I have them boxed up. Anything that comes off the car will be boxed. I have a period correct steering wheel that's in slightly better shape.  I am kind of fond of the glued together wood one that's in the car. Undecided

My '76 will go in to rust repair and paint soon. I will miss my 02s for a while.  None of the other BMWs can substitute in my heart.

The #26 had an Ireland Engineering distributor. I replaced the distributor in the '76 and found out it's from a Tii. The Tii one will be refurbished and go into the #26.

I do want a dogleg decal for the dash.  I had found a site, but have lost since. Do you know it?