evil02

I wonder if Honda rack would work. They are rear steer and they have a unique center section. They have manual and P/s racks. I assume the type S cars would have a quick ratio..

Sweet MFG also makes some tiny racks 16" to 21" max -

Manual racks too - https://sweetmfg.biz/home.php?cat=1

43 minutes ago, irdave said:

 

My wife has a '14 STI, she feels cool driving it.  I keep teasing her that I'm going to put a pop-tune on it with a blow off valve.  She's over 50.

 

We are older too and I put a Cobb tune on my wife's S3 no BOV but, in sport mode the exhaust note is killer. She loves it. I kind of wish I didn't because she can be a scary driver, lol..

6 minutes ago, irdave said:

 

Well, yeah, but...  One of them is a bazillion dollars and the other can be had for a couple grand from the sounds of it.

 

And between the intake noises and the transmission noises, that car has my undivided attention.

A quick google and the N20 doesn't really sound like the best engine. It's described as fragile and seems people only tune to about 350hp. Thats a pretty weak 4cyl engine of this era..

Yes, The crisp shifts are blowing my mind.

This just makes the N20 look silly -  

30 minutes ago, irdave said:

 

I think the Haltech Elite ECUs will run all that. 

Haltech and or any M1 series Motec is plenty smart enough to do it but, someone has to program it and that is were the real challenge starts, lol.. My guess would be that if you can understand how the cam system works then, the rest would be just like any other motor. 

9 hours ago, jrhone said:

  Just wanna see if there are people with any personal experience with that company before I take the plunge. 

   I have not used their fan controller but, I use a gauge set in my 68 Camaro and they work and look great. The dash gauges and my console gauges all integrate together and it is a very plug and play setup.  It is a very legit company to work with.

1 hour ago, gary32 said:

Friend installed a brand new type r in his Lotus Elan a year or so ago not sure where he got it. That car scoots.

 

V8?

GM performance connect and cruise e-rod LS3 6.2 liter aluminum block and heads compete from air filter to cat 430hp 422lb ft fuel injected with computer naturally aspirated CA smog legal with a T56 6 speed manual trans a complete brand new driveline for $15,600 and a 3 year warranty.LS3 E-ROD Manual Connect & Cruise Powertrain Sysem: GM Performance Motor.pdf

 You can buy them, long and short block from any Honda dealer. It's just not a dry sump HTP motor.

I put a GM LT5 crate motor and T56 trans with ecu in my 68 Camaro. 755hp/715ftlbs tq. Pulley swap and it makes 950/950. with a GM warranty, lol

59 minutes ago, gary32 said:

306 hp brand new for $6,520.00Honda Launches Civic Type R Crate Engine Purchase Program, Showcases Specialty and Production-based .pdf

   I tried to buy one last year through my shop. Once I told them it was going in a BMW, they denied me, lol.  They only sell these motors to Honda based cars and they have to be in a race series with a heavily advertised/sponsored car. It wasn't as Grassroots as they claim. If I pushed hard, it might have worked but, it is cheaper to buy one out of a crashed Type R and build it to your HP needs. They are already flashing these motors and making over 400hp with stock rods.

pm sent

Rules of ENGINE SWAP club

1st RULE: You do not talk about putting a hood on the car.

2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about putting a hood on the car.

3rd RULE: If someone says "stop" or goes limp, taps out the hood stays off the car.

4th RULE: Only two guys to remove the hood.

5th RULE: One hood removal at a time.

6th RULE: No shirts, no shoes, no hood on the car.

7th RULE: Removing the hood will go on as long as it has to.

8th RULE: If this is your first night at Swap CLUB, you HAVE to take your hood off.

7 hours ago, xr4tic said:

 

Not the latest, but the greatest M5 motor swap has already been done.

 

https://engineswapdepot.com/?p=20401

I wish his video showed him really push it hard instead of trying to win an Oscar for best production value, lol.

2 minutes ago, Son of Marty said:

Looks like a nice fit, but I'm sure you know putting the engine in the body is the easy part, it does get harder when you have to hook up all the gear, but that looks promising.

 I build a lot of cars and have done a lot of swaps. I can say, this is actually one of my easier swaps. So far, it all fits well. If I keep the stock steering box, the driver side header is going to be a challenge but, not any harder than a normal header. I already have a full e30 rear end installed with an e36 diff. The transmission tunnel was raised and the transmission fits perfectly. I will need to shorten the drive shaft but, thats easy. A/c will be run and a supercharger will be added later. I want to get it running and fully sorted out in N/a form first. I'm building 2 other cars at the same time so, this may get dragged out a little bit. I'll start a thread on it.

36 minutes ago, irdave said:

 

You, you heathen!

 

Do you think it will all fit?  Just rewatched that vid with the supercharged J motor in the back of the old mini...  500hp all day...  Even my wife thought it was a really good, just a little too much idea...  But she was down.

 I stuck it in there in about 3hrs.  Brake booster does not fit. Steering box does but, headers are going to be a bitch on the driver side. You can supercharge a stock  motor up to about 650(with 11:1 compression too!). Change the rods and it will do 850 all day.. I have a cam being developed and in N/a form, it should do about 400. Maybe more, not sure..

Behold a Honda J35..

8 hours ago, Benjamin A.R. said:

Indeed, maybe it's different in other countries, but here in the states almost no one does a good job nitriding undercut cranks. I think @evil02 has way more connections than me and he was saying he only knows of 2.

Nah, plenty will do it. I only trust these two guys as the really have a lot of experience. I am sure you can find a bunch of crank guys in Nascar area that do great work too but, you will pay dearly. The guys I use mainly do German cranks. I also have someone to cut new cranks but, the price is around $2500. That is fully engineered for rpm and strength.

Plenty of guys doing turbo S14's. I think there is a forum for it. Albeit not something that everyone is doing but, their out there,

A great formula is a Honda K24, turbo, K to Getrag adapter and use a Getrag 420g. You can get the whole clutch package and everything almost right off the shelf. We did this combination for an E30 M3.

1 hour ago, jk16vturbo said:

Oh no I want the twin turbo V8.  I think the V10 may be too big for the 2002 body but the V8 is like having a left and right side 4 cylinder. 

The S63?  Killer torque but, no thank you. We had a X5M and it almost burnt to the ground. That "hot V" turbo setup cooked all the hoses and plastics. Every time you touch something it cracked. I parked outside work, coworker came in and asked why there was fluid all under my truck. Something relate to the turbo caught fire, burnt all the wiring and the coolant line burnt open and the coolant extinguished the fire!   Truck was a 2012. BMW did take it back and fixed it all. I sold it as fast as it could go zero to 60..

56 minutes ago, Dudeland said:

The ole 75 cali car has blessed me with about 8.25 or 8.5:1, so no worries there.  I am going be able to run e85, and something like high octane gas (here in Canada you can get 97), and perhaps meth/water injection to keep things cool if the intercooler isn't up to the task.   

 

The new setup will run dual knock sensors (bosch dual wire) as well as EGT sensors on all cylinders to give me some warning.  Hopefully all that works fast enough to save it from the bang. 

  With that low of compression, you can run a ton of boost! Can you do a piston swap or machine a little off the head?

 For boost, I like 9.5:1.  But, you can go a little higher on E85 if you watch your timing. E85 really keeps things cool too. On my N/A Small block Chevy, I ran 11:1 with no problem(on E85)

2 minutes ago, jk16vturbo said:

How much room did you have to make between the strut towers?  I will have a spare '76 rusty shell left over after the '75 is complete and  I figured on finding a wrecked M5 with a six speed and modifying the floor panels to fit since they need to be replaced anyway.  I think the stock suspension may need to go as well.  Any thoughts on an upgrade? 

This is with an E30 M3. No space needed to be made. The nose had to be removed to slide it in. I'm not sure if it would fit in the 2002, I can measure and let you know but, it would be the same thing, the nose would have to be removed. I suspect the v10 is a little too long.

12 minutes ago, jk16vturbo said:

What about a 2002 and the latest greatest M5 motor stuffed between the shock towers?  Anybody know where I can find that 620 hp beast for cheap? 

Now your talking! We are installing a S85 as we speak(into an E30 M3). Glorious exhaust note.

6 hours ago, Benjamin A.R. said:

@2002iii He edited that comment, this is what he was saying initially. @gary32 maybe it was a mistake, but gotta kill misinformation. 

 

1. There's no 16v ("4v") head that bolts to the M10 bottom end with the exception of the unobtainable OG motorsport stuff we were discussing. There's one dude on this forum who was in the process of making reproductions, I haven't checked on his thread in a while. 

 

2. I don't think @evil02 was disrespecting the S14. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's saying there's no real, technical reason it should command such a premium over its Japanese competition from the era. He's right in my opinion. I could build about 4 turbo M10s for the cost of 1 ground-up NA S14. There was a time when S14 swaps made sense but that time has passed in my opinion.

 

3.  Personally, the reason I don't like the M42/M44 platforms is the same reason I don't like the E30 M10 blocks... If I put a Cummins turbocharger on a 200k mile M42, rammed 10psi into it, street tuned it (poorly at times), then tried to smack the limiter consistently for about 10k miles... the thing would eat itself on the 2nd pull I'd bet money. My bone stock '75 took all of that in stride. There's not a thing wrong with that engine except normal wear from the high mileage, and it's going to get built in the future using lessons I learn from the motor I just assembled.

 

4. If all we care about is the dollar to horsepower ratio, we'd all be running Honda F/K or SR20s or cramming in LSs (except the real racers amongst us like Toby). I'm just saying the "right" amount of power to have insane fun in an 02 is locked inside the engine it came with. Just add boost and even sorta modern management.

  1. Thank you. Yes, at first it just said 16v, no mention of M42.  I am also not a fan of the m42/44 engine.  They can be built but, not my cup of tea.

2.  No disrespect to the S14 at all. I clearly stated it was a cool motor in it's era and ahead of it's time. I said, its performance in the E30 M3 did not excited ME. If anyone here has one and it is what they love than great. I am very happy for you. I like different things  

 Yes, you can build two pretty stout turbo M10's for the price of one S14. I mean the HP up top of a turbo S14 is pretty awesome but, not at the cost it takes to get there. The m10 will pull stumps out of your garden and that's fun too. Hell, I built a turbo K24 for about $5k(with the $1k price for the motor) and it was a beast.

  As far as crank work goes. There are two places I trust to re nitrite the cranks. If you google it, one of them comes up quick (Colorado)and they are one of the top crank makers and the other one is a small shop in So Cal but, he takes forever and I don't recommend new people to him. Lots of people can do it but, it's a matter of who do you trust.

As far as being respectful, I'm trying  

11 hours ago, 2002iii said:

I'm sorry if I offended you, I'm not upset at you, I 'm only trying to be realistic. There's a big difference between aftermarket bearings and Honda bearings. 

 

If you were going to rip the s14 out and put other engines in why did you ruin 2 e30 m3s? Instead of buy a regular e30 and getting a m3 body kit. You obviously have lots of money to spend and don't care about originality. 

 

I will have a good night thank you.

 I understand your skepticism and it doesn't seem like I can ease your mind but, if you google Clevite or King Bearings, Like a Clevite 77 "P" or "H" bearing, you will see they are used in tons of high performance builds.

 Regarding Honda bearings and aftermarket bearings, the differences would only be what Honda specs for the loads, rpms and wear characteristics in their motors.  Aftermarket is probably pretty similar. Honda doesn't make their bearings but, they spec their F20/22 bearings to make 240hp and rev to 9,000 rpms (bone stock motor in a mass produced car) so, I would assume they know what they are doing.  I don't think there are any factory Honda rods with the same length as the m10 but, if their was, I would have zero problem using a factory Honda rod in a M10. The Acura NSK has titanium rods and thats a high revving v6, mass produced car/motor.

Regarding money, why does anyone do what they do?  If there were body kits that were good, I would consider an E30 but, the rear roof and pillars are something that when I last looked, they didn't have an answer for yet. That being said, you feel I ruined the E30 M3, I feel I made them into the car that I wanted. Here we are again, we disagree and that is ok.

28 minutes ago, 2002iii said:

I believe he meant the whole m42 motor. 

 

The fact that you think the s14 is just a 80's/90's 16v motor tells a lot.

 

If you look up the history of the e30 m3 you will see that it is a race car that was detuned and sold to the public only to meet homologation rules. It was a winning motor in its day and can still compete and win against most other comparable cars of the era. It may have been worth more money to you but that doesn't make it just any old 16v motor.

 

I would rather trust the BMW engineering put into a motor a lot more than what some guy on the internet with lots of claims and zero evidence.

Ok well, clearly you disagree with everything I have to say and thats cool but, not sure why you keep needing to prove me wrong. 1000's of engine builders use different bearings and rods and pistons and valves, etc.. start reading and you will realize I am sharing nothing new but, I am sharing good tips on how to make an M10 even better.

What does me saying anything about the S14 mean, please tell me.

 Ok, I will play along. So, it is better than other cars of it's era. Great but, to ME in todays time as I no longer live in the 1988 to 1991 era, it is nothing special. It was cool in its day and ahead of its time but compare to some stock 2021 cars, it's nothing. I mean, there are 300hp mini vans that are pretty incredible, lol..

 No need to look up the history of the E30 M3. I had two. I had one E30 M3, sold the S14 and installed a LS3. Sold it. The E30 M3 we have now, we sold the S14 and installed a K24. Then we added a turbo. We since sold the K24 off and are installing a S85 so, I have driven the S14 E30 M3 plenty and they do not excite me nor am I a numbers matching collector. 

 The experience of driving a car excites me, not nostalgia. Sorry..

 It is ok to not like someone's opinion and I'm happy you are passionate about the S14 and BMW engineering. I am just saying there are other manufactures out there doing great things too. I am also sharing how you can improve the M10 so, I'm not sure why you are upset with me.

 Believe me or not. I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone. I am nearly sharing my findings. Take it or leave it. In fact, if you don't like it, you can keep scrolling.  This thread was a NON traditional "how to build a turbo M10" thread. Not a "don't dare talk bad about the S14 or bad mouth BMW engineering" thread.

Have a good night. 

11 minutes ago, Dudeland said:

Dude with that sort of pep talk, I am running out to strap my turbo on as is.  

 

All kidding aside, i have worked mine hard, and as long as I change the fluids, it will run fine. . 

As long as your compression ration is under say, 11:1, throw it on and run E85 or run pump and keep the timing low. It will spool up hard but too soon and BOOM!   

2 hours ago, TobyB said:

The M10 with a 16 valve head is called an M12...

 

 

 

I can only say this so many times- in all but the least limited race classes, we may not modify basic motor

dimensions.  And in the least limited classes, no- one starts with an aero brick like a 2002.

 

It is VERY true that the bearing size in the M10 is good for grinding a stroker and making friction.  

It's huge.  You overcome it by adding boost

Since the bearings are so oversized, the thing doesn't mind.

For crap's sake, the S54 used M20 eta bearings- and only had problems because

they made 'em smaller....

(the M20 eta made 140 hp, the S54 330...)

 

t

gear driven.

 

  Sorry, I more meant race motors in GT3 or like class racing. For sure, the 2002 is a brick and for me, definitely not the #1 choice in track cars. I use to race 83' & 84' Rabbit GTI's and it was the same similar problem. If there were a series around me where there were a lot of 2002's, I'd love it but, there isn't. 

  I'm certain the crank bearings on a stock M10 were meant to run for 500,000 miles or more and not have any wear, lol.. These motors are practically tractor engines. It only takes a little machine work to go to a modern bearing. In my mind, it makes sense for a hotrod street motor or someone who does DE's, etc.. It all adds up..

d

I like Math..

3 minutes ago, gary32 said:

Would it not be better, easier and less labor intensive to start with a 16 valve head and skip the welding?

I get the because I can answer but for a customer?

  I'm not aware of any 16v head(non BMW) that would work other than the BMW S14 head and if I wanted to go that route, I would just get a full S14 and call it a day. Truth be told, I had a full S14 and sold it as, it is worth more to me in dollars rather than having the engine. N/a, it wasn't exciting to me and rather let someone else who wants it to have it. To me, it's just another 80's/90's 16v motor.

Plus, an 8 valve head makes buckets more low end torque down low vrs the 16v head too.