felix_666

Oh, that's just not a good image for troll week, that isn't...

 

lol

Yeah I noticed plenty of pulsation in the needle, especially at idle. I figured it was cause the pump is mechanical, like an oil pressure gauge without something to smooth it out each stroke of the pump.

I was wondering what happens to the excess pressure between the pump and the regulator. If the single speed pump keeps on pushing fuel but the regulator is trying to limit the flow, something must not be happy, right?

UPDATE:

JETS:

Measured all the jets, everything seems to size up, except barrel 4 has a different air corrector, but I don't think this probably has much to do with my issues, none the less I have replaced it with a 180 and have a set of 190's on the way, for comparison.

Not sure how big the emulsion tube holes are meant to be, does anyone have a reference?

FUEL PRESSURE:

Hooked up the gauge and found pressure to be between 3.5-4 psi, too high right?

I've ordered a regulator: 

FLOATS:

Float measurement after idling = 23 mm (YES I know, too high)

I'm guessing this is partially responsible for the poor idling conditions which appear to be from a very rich idle mixture, even though the idle mixture screws are 3/4 of a turn from seated - or are they compensating for the excess pressure/fuel...

SPARK PLUGS:

NGK: BP5ES

Super fouled.

I'm guessing this is partially from the overzealous pump pushing excess fuel into the bowels, but I also think that due to the idle mixture screws being so close to seated the idle jets are far too rich.

NEXT STEPS:

• Install regulator
• Run engine
• Check again for leaks, but I'm pretty certain I don't have any - all spark plugs are equally fouled.
• Check balance again
• Try to set all in timing
• If still rich then I'll stick the new set 50/F8's in

You need to remove the pan and pump and inspect it. 

^^^^^^^^^^^

If that is directed towards me, as mentioned earlier in the thread, I have done this TWICE, on each occasion everything was assembled as intended, see the photos.

Did a little more digging today. Here's what I found:

Idle jets: F9/55 are brand new, so I can only assume these to be true to their size.

Floats: 8.5 mm - they were within 1 mm of spec to begin with. No sound of fuel inside the floats.

No obvious leaks, first used smoke and then ran the engine and sprayed carb cleaner about.

Cold start circuit seems good, no binding, no gum, etc. The starter valves appear to be seated when the levers are "off". When I pushed the valves up they came back into the seat neatly. One of the arms of the levers that pushes the valve up is broken, see picture. This shouldn't effect anything as I'm not using them.

I was really hoping the cold start circuit was the culprit as it would have explained things well. The search continues...

Ok, I got it. I need one of these huh?

If these carbs were on a different engine before there is a very good chance that the jets have been drilled by someone. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE WHAT YOU THINK THEY ARE! I recomend 45F9 idle jets to start with, the idle mixture screws should be 1-1.5 turns open. Be very careful about tightening the mixture screws down you can damage the carb body (this may have already happened) and it will really mess up your ability to get the idle mixture adjusted correctly.

It looks like you are running the thick rubber O ring style isolator style carb>manifold gaskets, if they are not torqued down correctly they are prone to air leaking. Be very careful you can over tighten them and break the ear off the carb!

Make sure the floats are working correctly and set properly. If they are Brass take them out and shake them, make sure they don't have any fuel in them. Brass floats should be set at 8.5mm, plastic at 12.5mm.

As per my earlier post, the jets mentioned are what I've pulled out of the carbs after having them cleaned up and all new gaskets and some new jets.

Carbs were previously on another 02.

I can only assume the numbers on the jets to be correct, or is this incorrect?!

Cheers

Depending on vintage, those can jam, the linkage can be mis-installed as a result

of changing the orientation of the cable pull, etc etc etc. 

 

 

I'm trying to get my head around the cold start circuit. The orientation is of concern. The levers are currently tensioned by their springs, I assumed this position to be off, as it appears they are snapped back, or shut, but it would certainly explain why the car starts so well and then runs like crap... A potential major oversight - I'll check this weekend amongst other things. Learning, learning, learning....

Thanks for your persistence Toby. 

Ok, upon checking other things I noticed a difference in the alignment of the butterfly relative to the progression holes for the idle position for the rear carb.

I'm guessing this is a bent shaft? How bent is bent? I'm guessing these need to be exactly the same, right?

Lovely cars indeed.

What wheels are on the Verona? They appear differently in the last photo?

EDIT: whoops, my mistake, reread the thread, cheers.

I suggest you start with the timing.  Set total advance at 33-34 degrees.  You'll need to set it at 3000+ rpm. 

The idle jets are probalby a bit too big.  If the idle is hunting look for an air leak.  BUT first set the timing.

Jim, as mentioned in my first post I'm having trouble getting RPM over 3k, which makes makes it difficult to set all in timing. I'll check for leaks and work towards all in timing.

Sounds like thee is something wrong with timing as you said set 10btdc with adjustable timing light. Not trying to be insulting but are you really at 10btdc or did you just turn the timing light?

John

Turn the timing light?? What does that mean?

As with any non-stock timing I set the gun to whatever number I need and shoot the TDC mark - which for these cars I believe is "OT", i think. Sound right?

@Toby: By warm-up system do you mean chokes? They are not connected but still exist, the springs in them seem tight, so they should be closed.

I'm going to try a little more advance, but my dizzy is tight, no movement from the notches in the flywheel when I hit it with the timing light.

Have spent all night reading up on DCOEs, going to try and check for leaks, perhaps the smoke method, unless someone has a better method, carb cleaner/butane?

Ordered that book, will have a good dig through it - How to build and tune...

Carbs are Italian, were previously on a 2002. The jets I mentioned earlier are what I pulled out, front and back match.

The bloke who rebuilt them has had his carb shop since the 80's, I'm hoping he would of picked up on anything that was a miss. I'll eventually take the car to him, but really want to be able to problem shoot myself.

Would like to problem shoot as much as possible before I change things out.

Running 98 octane.

Picking up a float gauge and will search for leaks and check balance again.

Thanks guys for the lengthy replies, really appreciate it.

Steve, I have been through many of the 16 pages of threads that are returned when searching titles for "DCOE". I'm yet to come across someone explaining how to set up DCOEs from scratch, specifically the idle jets, please direct me to such threads if you know of said information.

Have read the dcoe install faq several times, again, I didn't see anything regarding setup, only parts required, which I have. I am missing something?

Using Haynes Weber Carb manual, it's so so, very generic procedures. Balance carbs, turn idle mixture clockwise, half turn at a time, until adjustment has been reached which give the highest engine speed. This is the level of detail for the idle mixture screws. What if your idle wont sit still?

I'm seeking some on going advice to get my DCOE 40's running better.

I've tried various methods for dialing in the idle mixtures:

Start 2.5 turns out, 1/4 to 1/2 turn clockwise in until engine falls away, or for best idle, of leanest idle, or for fastest idle.

Start 1 turn out and turn either way so idle increases (clockwise?) until 1/4 turn each way has no effect.

Start blah blah blah...

• I have a STE BK synchrometer to balance the carbs, but have a hard time reading the display precisely - the needle moves about a bit. It seems to me that the carbs are within 1 unit of each other, 7-8.
• Linkages and brake vacuum were disconnected when adjustments were made
• Timing is set to 10 degrees using an adjustable light, as per instructions, can't get the engine over 3k to set all in timing.
• No knocking noticeable
• I'm pretty certain the balancing and or idle mixture needs adjustment, but when the engine is hunting about it is impossible to adjust the idle mixtures.
• Currently, all the idle mixture screws are about 1 turn out.

Problems:

1. Idle is hunting
2. Terrible power up to 3k, haven't gone over due to poor running of the engine
3. Car starts first time when cold, but if it stalls once warm it is a major pain to start again
4. Occasional bit of back fire when driving
5. Plugs are black, wayyy too much fuel.

Engine is new, <15 kms.

• 292 regrind from IE
• E12 - 9.5:1 CR - 90mm Bore
• Crane XR700 Ignition
• All new ignition leads, coil and cap
• Rebuilt and weighted dizzy, no vac, 10 degrees at static
• Pump is new, the bavarian model i think, or what ever the high flow low pressure one is.

Carbs were pulled down, cleaned, inspected by a professional, not me, I think I recall him saying he left them rich whilst the engine was new, does this account for the F9 bleed tube?

• 33 chokes

• 125 main

• f16 tubes

• 45 pumps

• F9/55 idle j.

• 180 air

I need to know a proven procedure for setting the idle mixtures, I'm sure this is my problem. I not new to carbs but totally new to DCOEs and multiple carbs.

Will measure the floats in the next day, I know someone will ask so I better have an answer eh?

Thanks

Will

Slightly old post now, but thought I should follow it up for anyone in the future having similar problems.

The car went on it's maiden voyage this week and aside from running like crap (carbs) the oil pressure seemed good. Maybe around 140psi on cold - 10 degrees ambient temp (50 fahren). Once the engine was warm after going for a drive the idle oil pressure was about 25 psi.

The engine has 15km, but my odometer seems to be stuffed, next project.

The manual valve will stay put for the next while.

Thanks for all those who chimed in on the thread.

The bonnet was a pain, took three goes, but happy how it came out in the end, these photos are before locking the bonnet down...

This is a temp setup, need to work out how I'm going to install it. Hopefully this will help keep an eye on my oil pressure.

Nearly there....

Thanks for your help guys, much appreciated.

It turned out to be a bad connection at the fuse box termninal.

Cheers

I have searched extensively and have tried a couple of suggestions but to no avail.

My indicator stalk (right hand side) and brake lights aren't responding.

As of last week they were, I've not worked on anything electrical since then.

Hazard light switch operates the indicators without problem, so I assuming the relay is fine.

Headlights, fan, dash all work fine.

I pulled the the stalk and everything looked ok. Seems like it has been re-soldered before and there is fair bit of oxidation on one joint - could this be the issue?

I have another stalk which needs repairing and once I do this I will fit it. 

I'm assuming the brake light switch is somehow related, but perhaps just a coincidence?

Thanks for any help, this is one of the last hurdles before putting my car back in the road after 7 years!

Will

Have been meaning to install this for a while. Haven't turned it over yet, waiting to get the driveshaft right, adding a few spacers to lower the centre bearing.

Makes static timing a cinch.. 

After a long, long time of putting off this job I finally got a around to it. I have bought so many different types of chrome vinyl that simply don't stick. This was sourced from a local 02er and at around $130 a meter it wasn't cheap. however, I only used about about 6-7cm worth as the roll it comes on is about 1.25m. Patience was the key, such a boring job. I just hope it stays put.

This stuff worked pretty good for me to seal up cracks and worked as a bit a filler too.

Phone pry tools you get on fleabay for less than the cost of a stamp - worked great at sealing the edge closest to the vinyl.

The idea here was to be able to centre the pieces. I ended up with a different approach for each strip.

Finally, the exhaust is complete. Probably not necessary on the 02, but the ceramic coating (which is actually underneath the black) made these pieces look great. At least the spark leads won't get fried any more.

Having some trouble with timing, got my dizzy recurved, not sure whether to install the crane at this point, or get things right with the points.

Ticked some "simplier" tasks off the list in the mean time.

had some problems with purging, otherwise it would of gone swell...

Fits up, so no complaints.

This guys is giving me a hard time. Can't seem to get the right o-ring for the shaft that attaches the arm on the other side. Have tried 8x1.25, 8x1.5, 7.9x1.8 (imperial) and finally i'm hoping 7x2.0mm will do the job. I think the shaft has worn a little which is why the original spec o-rings (8x1.5mm) were a little loose and subsequently leaking - yes, I know the cover is missing in this picture.

Old thread, but very helpful, thanks for taking the time.

 

I did wonder whether the pump got some sort of twist or strain on it because I had removed the brace that supported it at the main bearing to accomodate  the windage tray and baffle, and this caused the relief valve to jam.  I still do not know.

Hey Alan, just wondering how you knew that the relief got jammed?

The correct oil pressure at idle, 4000 rpm or whatever else is highly contested if you look back over old threads, so I'm not sure what to think. I know the blue manual says 11-17 psi at idle and 57 psi at 4000 rpm, for a stock engine.

Until I get a more accurate gauge I can't say for sure (I only have a 0-500psi gauge at the minute).

This is how the engine looked beforehand. I installed a new style Febi pump on rebuild.

I'm trying to find a pic of the rebuilt engine...

The below picture is an oil filter housing for cartridge type filters, not screw on, right? Can't see any threads on the spindle.