felix_666

Had some spare time and got things going again.

Balanced the carbs, they are even stevens, but were pretty close to begin with.

Checked over the ignition system, nothing major there, except the coil gets damn hot after running for 15 min or more, can't remember if this is normal, but the Crane is tepid to touch, so I think its all good.

PROBLEMS:

• Idle can be set nice to about 950 RPM, but when driving the engine spits and bogs under acceleration. I thought this meant it was too lean or not enough advance, but it also blows smoke and advance is about 12*, any more and the idle turns to crap.
• RPM will randomly drop and stall the car and restarting when its warm is a real pain, the only way it will start is with wide open throttle.

I adjusted the valves about a month ago and perhaps they are too tight? I have a go-no-go gauge and would of set them cold for 0.25 mm

It should be noted than the engine has about 20km on it so I'm expecting it will blow smoke while the rings continue to bed, which makes problem shooting difficult.

Spitting can be caused from ignition and valves, anything else?

Greetings from the Netherlands.

Nice!

Yes you need them.

Make sure you've tried each set on the left and right side of the car. You can bend the normal hard lines by hand, SS might be a little more difficult, all you need to do is find round objects that are roughly the radius you need and bend them to shape.

Perhaps start by bending some old lines to get a feel for it. They look pretty close to me, you should be able to persuade them home, however, the important part is that the male and female fittings line up square so you can get the thread started.

Re weeping, the washer should be an aluminium (crush) washer, not hard steel, unless the threads are tapered and then you don't need any washers. 

20psi @ idle when the engine is hot (30 min+) is normal.

 

 

"Sounds fine" is relative, I still need to deal with some very poor compression (90psi, 100psi, 95psi, 100psi), oil leaks from the head gasket, the "James Bond" smoke screen I leave with at stop lights, etc....

 

I was only referring to your oil pressure, I should have written, your engine pressure reads fine.

The oil gauge is a good bit of insurance. My engine is new, aside from the actual block and head, and the high pressure oil was an ongoing issue, which I negotiate with a gauge.

Good luck.

100 psi when the engine is cold and idling is fine, that alone when you rev it to 2500rpm.

Viscosity will vary as a function of temperature. Cold and hot are like chalk and cheese.

I wouldn't dream of revving my car to 2500rpm when its cold. When it is cold, at idle, it pegs 150 psi, and doesn't drop until the sticky relief piston does what its supposed to.

Your engine sounds fine.

Here's a picture of the pigtail I soldered up for an extra ground to back of my instrument panel.  This was then routed to a ground on the firewall under the dash.

Instrument panel ground pigtail.jpg

 

I did this last year (along with cleaning up the other grounds under the hood) and my interior lights and gauges have been rock-solid ever since. No more jumpy temperature gauge and fuel gauge!

 

It's super easy, shouldn't take more than about 45 minutes, start-to-finish, and doesn't necessarily need soldered connections; crimping will suffice.

 

Ed

+1 This is a great mod, worked a treat.

You're going to spend hundreds, if not thousands of hours, sweat, blood and tears rebuilding the car, pick a colour you really like.

Billy sports and IE stage two, all new rubber and I think the rear spring spacers are the thick ones, which kinda shows on a profile shot. Hopefully I can source some of the shorter ones and bring the rear down.

Yep, came from the factory like that. There must be close to a dozen pieces of the early carpet kit, seems like a rather large afterthought.

Yes, I had these to locate the carpet, but the carpet kit I installed didn't have the receiving piece so I pulled them out.

I seem to be going backwards again. Things were best a couple months ago when I hadn't touched a thing, no shaking, no stumbling, and it seemed to idle ok. 

Fuel pressure: 2.5 psi

Wet float test: 26-27mm - this is with the shut of height set to 9mm, drop 15mm

Problem: engine won't idle, shakes like crazy.

I'm questioning the ignition, timing and crane. Everything is new except the cap, i think. I don't understand what could of changed from when it was good, given I haven't touched anything ignition related except adding a little advance.

What else makes the engine shake? Lack of fuel?

To top it off I lost a progression cover, cutting my day short. I think I'll give it a couple more goes, then tow it to carb guy as the engine needs to be run in and this isn't good for it.
 

Finally got around to fixing the odometer, took a couple of goes, but well worth the time. Local shop were asking $110 for the job.

What Toby said.

Think I've popped the filter gasket and cleaned my engine bay about 6-7 times, after about 5 times you become pretty proficient at cleaning up - I like to use the cheap degreaser in a can as it is pretty mild. I've also had much more luck with good quality filters, in addition to letting the car warm up when it cold, which look like this:

Little update whilst I'm wresting the two DCOE heavy weights attached to the engine.

There is a stop on the linkage, but I didn't want to rely on that in sprited driving, a little ugly, but pretty innocuous. 

Leaving the Bat Cave for the first time in about 2.5 years for our maiden voyage. Ran like a bucket of sh!t, but that wasn't enough to wipe the grin off my face.....

Thanks Toby, I really appreciate the ongoing help, without the support of the board I think I would of put these suckers in the neighbours pool some time ago.

The throttle plates are orientated as you said. The carbs were re-built by a fella that solely works on carbs since my old man was my age, not saying he doesn't make the odd mistake, but when ever I drop in I'm always amazed at the cars he is working on - I say this to give hope to your large assumption that everything else regarding the plates is right.

I'll have another crack at the regulator, its brand new so I was kinda bummed about it not working, speaking with the seller presently.

I'm unsure about your last point regarding the dizzy, "when you rev the car, the advance works, and really advances the timing?"

When I rev the car (since giving it a little more advance yesterday) the engine was much more responsive than on previous occasions. I can only assume the advance works because as I 'advance' (rotate the dizzy counterclockwise) the rpm increases, to a point, before turning to crap, and coversely, if I retard the dizzy (clockwise) it runs terriably. I actually can't retard the timing as it won't run. The highlight yesterday was adding 1-2* of advance and smoothing out the the idle. 

Does that answer your question?

Lastly, I'm still unsure about the floats. Literature doesn't say much about anything aside from the 8.5/15mm setting. I was thinking of increasing the stop height, to say 9mm, to see if this would lower the fuel level in the bowl/well. I'm guessing you're going to say sort out the regulator first, huh?

Grazie mille

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Today was painfully slow and unproductive. I feel like I'm going backwards. 7 years of restoration and this is a true test of my patience.

 

 

I don't think you're setting enough timing advance...  I know because I've been fighting my own car now for weeks. 

 

OR your throttle plates are too far open, as in, it's running on the transition ports.

I'm also with Toby on the throttle plate being open too far, which would negate any effect of the carb's idle circuit. (your linkage is allowing complete closure of the throttle plates?) At the same time, make sure your linkage has a stop that keeps it from over-rotating at WOT.

 

IDLE ADJUSTMENT

I think you all must have missed my comments regarding the throttle plates on the previous page of the thread. To summarise, here is a picture at idle, I believe this is pretty close to where you want them?

STARTING

Once the car is started, if it stalls, its very difficult to get the engine going again, even when its warmed up. I believe its because the plugs are being fouled/wet. This has been an ongoing issue, like having the cold start circuit on, yes I have checked it several times.

IDLE JET

I changed the idle jets to 50F8, which made the idle mixture screws a little more responsive.

TIMING

Timing at idle was previously at 10*, today I tuned it by ear, increasing the advance until the engine stumbled and then backing it off, its at around 12*, I will need to check it with the timing light. Adjusting the timing helped with smoothness. The engine will not operate with any more timing. As stated earlier everything is new, including a rebuilt/curved dizzy.

REGULATOR

The regulator was leaking fuel from the inlet side so I had to go without it, not sure why, I assumed there was no need for thread tape as they are tapered threads. I don't understand what happens to the excess fuel with these in/out regulators?? The thing sucked, why why why.

The fuel pressure without the regulator is about 3.5-4 psi.

FLOATS

I rechecked the static specs, currently they are at 8.5/15mm. HOWEVER, the wet test came back at about 24mm.

What is the adjusting procedure of pulling the fluid level into spec, do I gradually increase the "shut off height"and maintain the same "drop" height, eg.

9/15mm

9.5/15mm

As it can be seen the below picture I have excess fuel, I'm not sure if this is because the floats aren't quite right, or the pressure is too high, but I'm pretty certain this is the reason why I'm so rich and the car is a real pain to start if it stalls.

The excess fuel, which is hard to see in this pic, is the reason why I think the car is running rich, poorly and REALLY hard to re-start.

Well, the answer is 10mLs +-.5mLs. I dug out the graduated syringe, low viscosity oil, and leveled the block. 10mLs.

This is more fun than a text book if you ask me and comes with a deeper understanding.

Not to beat a dead horse here, but are you SURE your ignition system is TOTALLY PERFECT?

No, as mentioned previously, I can't get to 3000+RPM to dial all in timing. I am thinking of increasing the advance a little after ruling out a couple of other things first.

 

That said, I've seen throttle plate/progression hole relationships that looked just like that, and it was due to imprecise progression hole drilling and NOT bent throttle shafts.

Plates have been fixed, there are no holes in the throttle plates.

 

I've also seen cold start pistons not seating properly due to corrosion in the bore/on the piston.

Clean as a whistle.

 

I've also seen floats that don't float, causing the needle valve to never shut.

Floats are my predicted issue, I think the level isn't right, combined with slightly high fuel pressure = too much fuel.

 

 

Also, 50f8 sounds a little lean for your set up.

?? No 50F8's here. I'm using 55F9. Did you see the pic of the plugs?

 

7-8 at idle on an ste syncrometer is WAY to much sucking at idle.

I don't think you can compare numbers, I thought. From my understanding, its relative to the carbs you're syncing. If they both say 7, then they are both pulling the same amount of air and therefore "synced", right?

 

What does your car idle at, this obviously makes a difference?

 

When I pop the progression covers off, at idle, the throttle plates can just been seen in through the first progression hole. Over the weekend I was driving an Alpha 1600 Junior with has DCOE's and runs pretty damn well, I had a look at where the throttle plates were through the progression holes at idle and they were pretty similar to mine. From what I've read the throttle plates should be right on the first progression hole at idle, ready to open up as soon as you put your foot on the throttle.

Thanks for your input.

I think it will be a combination of rich idle jets, too much fuel pressure, slightly incorrect float height and perhaps not enough timing advance.

Got some free time this Friday to stick the regulator in, hopefully I can report back with something new.

Thanks for the suggestions Fred, but the measuring process isn't my issue, the correct value (distance), 25mm vs. 29mm, is my question. 

From the following post I'm guessing there is a range between 25-29mm at which people set them to, however, a 4mm tolerance seems rather large given that the static calibration of the floats has a tolerance of 0.5mm.

It seems 25mm is the preferred measurement, I'll have a crack at that. 

Cheers.

UPDATE

What is the correct fuel level in the float? See here for the technique and here for the measurement.

On this site I have found both 25mm and 29mm being circulated? I can't find a value for this measurement in any of the 4 manuals I have for Webers.

The reason I ask:

After checking over things and measuring the jets etc I started the car and it ran ran worse than ever. I took me a little to remember what I changed, the FLOAT LEVEL.

The float shut off height was originally less than the 8.5mm that I adjusted the floats to currently.

In other words, the car ran better beforehand when the the shut off height was less, perhaps around 7-8mm.

I now understand the importance of the float level, but would like to calibrate the floats using the wet method. 

EDIT: I found this on the interwebs which concurs with the earlier link I posted.

My baffle... Goes well with the scraper. More consistent oil pressure

Make sure you get someone to weld in the baffle similar to the above, although I think this might be overkill by a factor of 2, better to be safe than sorry, I'm guessing the owner welded it in place?

The monkey who welded mine in, before I was able to weld, made the welds too big and warped the BRAND NEW sump, not to mention it wasn't straight.

thank you sir.

I have emailed him

I too would be interested. Could you please let us know of their reply? Thanks

Thanks, except at that point the car hadn't left the garage in 7 years, end of the resto period, this was about 2 months ago.

This is a IE system. I was surprised at how quiet it is. I was expecting it to be on the loud side, but its actually very pleasant, certainly louder than stock, but not offensive. I think it is 2" all the way through from the 2-1 collector. Rear muffler is smaller than the stock one.

I forgot to mention in my first post that I believe there are different 2-1 collectors - specifically the length of the trailing straight section. My car is RHD and the LHD cars may have different collectors. I certainly know this is the case for automatic cars.

So perhaps someone else can chime in and confirm.

Yes, that is the setup I have.

However, the 2-1 collector on my car is stock, so the original bracket works perfectly. If you intend to use a larger diameter collector then I think you would simply need to use a larger exhaust clamp to suit, as the bracket connecting the exhaust to the transmission has slotted holes - I think.

Since this photo I had my 2-1 collector ceramic coated, hmmmm....