EFI Dilema To ITB or not to ITB

[winstontj]

The motor in my DD finally crapped out. It still runs but #1 cyl's exhaust valve is sticking & there appears to be a broken/damaged ring or something.... Not good either way. Needs to be fixed ASAP.

I have a spare motor that will get rebuilt to tii-ish spec shortly. This will be a quick & dirty rebuild. The motor will get re-honed, valve job, etc. but i'm going to just replace valve seals and re-use guides, seats, etc. I know it's not the best but time is an issue.

I have an e30 318i intake manifold and here's the delima I'd rather go ITB because it's easy & simple. I'm doing a brake booster delete so this is VERY straightforward. I don't really want to use the e30 intake manifold because I think things like cold start & aux. air valves are a PITA. Is there a way I can do a cheap, quick, decent EFI ITB configuration? I've been looking for the Suzuki ITB's but can't find any, don't want to buy a set of TWM's because I just bought a set of Jenvey's for another motor.

My budget for the ITB/EFI setup is $500. Is this possible? What other cars/mototcycles/planes/trains/etc... have something that I could get at a pick'n pull and or have setup for an EFI setup like this. I litterally want something to make it through the winter and maybe further. I just think that the E30 setup will only complicate things. I want a SIMPLE EFI setup on ITB's but maybe i'm just dreaming....

Thoughts are appreciated.... Also Anyone know where there is a motorcycle junkyard around Boston area??

[JohnN]

The motor in my DD finally crapped out. It still runs but #1 cyl's exhaust valve is sticking & there appears to be a broken/damaged ring or something.... Not good either way. Needs to be fixed ASAP.

I have a spare motor that will get rebuilt to tii-ish spec shortly. This will be a quick & dirty rebuild. The motor will get re-honed, valve job, etc. but i'm going to just replace valve seals and re-use guides, seats, etc. I know it's not the best but time is an issue.

I have an e30 318i intake manifold and here's the delima I'd rather go ITB because it's easy & simple. I'm doing a brake booster delete so this is VERY straightforward. I don't really want to use the e30 intake manifold because I think things like cold start & aux. air valves are a PITA. Is there a way I can do a cheap, quick, decent EFI ITB configuration? I've been looking for the Suzuki ITB's but can't find any, don't want to buy a set of TWM's because I just bought a set of Jenvey's for another motor.

My budget for the ITB/EFI setup is $500. Is this possible? What other cars/mototcycles/planes/trains/etc... have something that I could get at a pick'n pull and or have setup for an EFI setup like this. I litterally want something to make it through the winter and maybe further. I just think that the E30 setup will only complicate things. I want a SIMPLE EFI setup on ITB's but maybe i'm just dreaming....

Thoughts are appreciated.... Also Anyone know where there is a motorcycle junkyard around Boston area??

The simplest conversion is the E30 intake manifold. The throttle linkage is simple, you don't have to worry about fabing a fuel rail, if it is a short term conversion, you don't even have to substitute the throttle body. If you don't like cold start and aux air valves, then don't put them in. Buy the Megasquirt you'll want anyway, get the E30 fuel pump you'll want anyway, plumb the high pressure fuel line you'll want anyway, the balance of the wiring harness you add for he quick and simple conversion will be identical to your 'ultimate' setup. I would suggest you get larger injectors than were delivered on the 318, Volvo 240's were where I got mine.

Good luck.

John N

[winstontj]

The simplest conversion is the E30 intake manifold. The throttle linkage is simple, you don't have to worry about fabing a fuel rail, if it is a short term conversion, you don't even have to substitute the throttle body. If you don't like cold start and aux air valves, then don't put them in. Buy the Megasquirt you'll want anyway, get the E30 fuel pump you'll want anyway, plumb the high pressure fuel line you'll want anyway, the balance of the wiring harness you add for he quick and simple conversion will be identical to your 'ultimate' setup. I would suggest you get larger injectors than were delivered on the 318, Volvo 240's were where I got mine.

Good luck.

John N

I was thinking that but what do I do? Just litterally plug all the holes? Doesn't MS need that stuff to work properly or will it be smart enough to compensate with fuel upon cold start. What I really need is a car that will start and run for my girlfriend. I'm not buying another car (i already have enough and may have one more 2002 next week) so I need something that she can get in and just drive... No worries about choke, stalling, noises, etc. drive it, put gas in it.. that's it...

Thanks for the help - what volvo? any 240? thanks John N

[DAK]

JohnN is absolutely right... E30=simple and quick (both for install and tuning) ITB=more fabrication, more tuning time; and little gain without cam, compression, timing, and exhaust changes.

What I really need is a car that will start and run for my girlfriend.... so I need something that she can get in and just drive... No worries about choke, stalling, noises, etc. drive it, put gas in it.. that's it...

Daily Driver? Go with E30 parts if something breaks or wears out then its easy to get the parts.

The E30 intake was designed to bolster the mid range torque of the 1.8i motor and makes the 2.0 extremely smooth and tractable.

I was thinking that but what do I do? Just litterally plug all the holes? Doesn't MS need that stuff to work properly or will it be smart enough to compensate with fuel upon cold start.

MS doesn't need any of that stuff to work. Warmup fuel enrichment is based on coolant temperature. Auxillary air valve or idle air control are nice for smooth start and idle, but you can get a good starting and smooth idleing motor without these.

The cold start injector on the E30 is completely unnecessary with a Megasquirt. I removed mine. See the pics.

what volvo? any 240?

With MS you can run any injectors you want, there are many choices in the Bosch style that will fit right into the E30 manifold and fuel rail with no changes. I am running 21#hr high impedance injectors from a Saab 900 turbo, works great with the new MSnE high res code.

These pics are of my DD MSed beater car. No IAC, Aux air, or cold start.

No trouble for almost two years. Car starts first time every time cold, hot or warm.

The triangular plate on the manifold where the two blue vacuum hoses attach is where the IAC and cold start vavle used to reside. This plate is from an E30 M20 manifold, bolts right on.

[DAK]

I'll try again.

[winstontj]

I'll try again.

me too... I'll go back to the pick & pull tomorrow AM and actually pay the $15 they wanted for all my parts. I am just apprehensive about putting the e30 intake on because I think it will restrict more than help but I suppose smooth running is better than rough idling and crappy milage.

Will post photos tomorrow!

[TobyB]

I think things like cold start & aux. air valves are a PITA

yeah, but a steady idle is nice...

Seriously, start with the e30, get everything working,

and THEN spend your time on something 'tricker'.

The E30 stuff is all engineered for you and will let you

work out the bugs on your end without too many

unknowns.

And the throttle body is the restrictive bit- the rest of it is pretty decent

for what it is...

t

[wazzu70]

I can't believe you think the e30 mani is more complicated than an ITB setup. You need to do some more research on EFI systems and tuning before you start throwing money around IMO. Like mentioned get the e30 stuff on there and you can switch later if you want to. With adding an ECU, high pressure lines, fuel pump ect the last thing you want to mess with is fabbing an ITB manifold, especially if time is an issue.

[tomorrowcalling]

[quote="TobyB"

And the throttle body is the restrictive bit- the rest of it is pretty decent

for what it is...

t

I'm currently running an E30 inlet manifold, with a Link ECU (http://www.linkecu.com/). Currently the engine is fairly stock but I'm planning some upgrades in the the near future. I was targeting around 150 hp will that be possible with the E30 manifold?. I know I need bigger injectors as they're currently maxing out at about 90% duty cycle.